operating my own charter biz

[rewdan]

Hi, I may have posted in the wrong forum as it's not strictly a live aboard situation but I was hoping someone out there doing the live aboard would be able to help me. If it is then please move my post to where it should be.

I am considering a career change from builder in the uk to rib operator for charter in the med up to 12 miles from the coast of Ibiza, Spain. 7m rib taking people sightseeing, lunching, snorkling but not water skiing etc. Daylight hours only and 8 passengers max. I am hoping to pick up one day charter a week high season and I would skipper.
That is pretty much the model of it, I have 10 years experience with a searay 4.3 merc inboard.
RYA ICC
Willing to learn new qualifications before taking passengers.
Physically and mentally all there. (I think!)

I would like the boat to be UK registered as I would remain Uk tax registered as well, the charter would only operate for a few summer months a year.

So the questions are-
what kind of qualifications do you think I would need?
what would the Spanish Authorities make of it all?
what kind of boat would you recommend? (I would like the biggest possible on a trailer as I don't want to pay marina charges here which are very dear)
Anyone done a similar thing?

Thanks in advance

 

[nimbusgb]

Physically and mentally all there. (I think!)

Not if you want to go into chartering in opposition to a local Spaniard you're not

 

[Wansworth]

Your best bet is the Spanish Embassy,commercial section.........even then you will probably not know whats needed or anything even vaguely related to your enquirey

 

[nickd]

Dont know about spanish specifics, but I would have thought you would need a commercial cert anywhere in the EU.

With regard to keeping your rib on a trailer, I had a rib for 5 years and the only significant damage that was ever done to it was getting it on to its trailer, something I would avoid if possible. A 7m rib is quite a rib to get on/off a trailer on your own particularly in adverse conditions especially if the engine is of any size. Surely you will need a place to load your passengers from anyway.

I would have thought that a 7 metre was quite small for 8 paying passengers.

 

[chinita]

Writing a little Business Plan, and even putting fairly accurate numbers to it is very easy.

Dealing with Spanish Bureaucracy - particularly in the Balearics - is not so easy.

Expect to be subjected to masses of paperwork, long waits in all kinds of inaccessible places at inconvenient times even to solve what may be, to you, the simplest of matters.

Your Spanish will need to be fluent and colloquial as you are very likely to encounter local officials who will not enter into any sort of conversation in English. You will probably be required to take up Residencia and have a fixed address. You will certainly be required to move all of your tax matters to Spain and this will involve lawyers and notaries.

I have experienced friends who started up a MoBo day charter business in the Mar Menor. Everything above board, coded and legal. No shortage of Brit punters from La Manga Golf Resort. After two years they just gave up and scuttled off back to UK. The pressure from the authorities (Policia Maritima, Aduanas etc) stirred up by the local competition just became too much for them.

Nothing to do with what you plan, but as an example, when we had our baby in Cartagena we had to hire an interpreter (a Swedish woman, married to a Spaniard who had lived there for fifty years) - no big deal but essential. When we came to Register the child I needed to travel three times to Murcia. The office opened between 9am and midday. The queue outside formed at 6am. People actually pay others to stand in line for them.

On the third attempt I got to the counter and got the registration done minutes before they closed.

Now, that was for a simple matter. I would expect that what you propose will not be so simple.

Best of luck if you do go ahead and I sincerely hope that someone can come up to contradict what I have said!

 

[Csail]

Check out insurance first, its loads.

 

[rewdan]

I have had an insurance quote, as long as it's a fully coded boat and no water skiing or towing then £750 which I thought was reasonable.
I want to trailer the boat to save on marina fees, also so that I can clean and maintain it in my garage at home. I would never expect to be booked solid, would consider on booking a week to be good so moored up for 6 days would be a bit of a waste.
7m is a bit short, I would be looking at the largest I could legally tow behind my Landcruiser, I don't think weight is a problem as it can tow nearly 3 tonnes, I have seen trailers that push the bow of the boat above the rear of the car allowing a longer boat to be towed but am still looking into that bit.
I have emailed the Spanish Embassy, will post if they get back to me but keep the comments coming. They are all very helpful.

 

[G12]

Used to tow a 8.5m RIB behind a landrover defender with a 225 4 stroke on the back. Pretty big but doable. Also had front mounted towbar, great for moving it around with good accuracy in the boat park.

 

[Jeannius]

Try these chaps for legal and licencing advice http://www.iurismarine.com/?lang=en They were mentioned a while back in another thread, I contacted them (but haven't yet actually used them) and they seem to know what they are talking about.

 

[rewdan]

Thanks, really interesting stuff, I have emailed them for info.

 

[duncan99210]

If the boat is registered in UK, then it must comply with UK coding rules including annual suverys etc. However, if you spend more than 183 days per year in Spain, then the boat is subject to 'matriculation tax' of IIRC 15% plus it must be Spanish registered. Once the boat is registered in Spain, you must obtain Spanish qualifiactions etc, etc, etc. I don't want to rain on your parade but it is a nighmare trying to negotiate Spanish rules and regulations, especially as there will be a heap of Spaniards with their noses out of joint at you, as they see it, muscling in on their business.

If you want to run a RIB charter business, I'd suggest doing it in UK where you at least speak the same language as the folks enforcing the regulations.

Finally, you'll need a commercial endorsement on your boat handling qualification. Doesn't take much - a medical and a first aid certificate IIRC.

 

[rewdan]

thanks Duncan, I am starting to get my head around the coding bit and have nailed both the matriculation tax and residency problems (I will remain UK resident and it's a small boat). The Island of Ibiza has a high percentage of UK expats working or owning bars etc and I think it's ok and accepted with the locals as they are very much integrated with the expats, as are the expats with the locals. It is a small island and therefore not too far to go if you do something wrong or someone does something wrong to you. This is one of the nice things about being there.
As for doing a RIB biz in the UK, whilst I thank you for your suggestion, I have been a builder in the UK for 25 years and it is the weather that has finally put the nail in my coffin. To run a RIB in the UK would be jumping from the pan into the fire for me. I need a job where the footwear is flip flops at most!
Thanks for the input and you look good going round the cape!

 

[Steve Clayton]

We've chartered in Spain. In our case boat needed to be part 1 registered, not only UK coded but Spanish inspected as well, I required to be on formal register (I was a ferry captain!). Something not mentioned yet - your trailer will need it's own separate licence. If you'r no more than 12 miles offshore wher are you going to store the poo from 8 people?,

 

[Csail]

Sounds a good plan but when i looked at doing it the Spanish especially don't like new people in their 'waters' I'll join you if it works.

 

[lovezoo]

However, if you spend more than 183 days per year in Spain, then the boat is subject to 'matriculation tax' of IIRC 15% plus it must be Spanish registered. Once the boat is registered in Spain, you must obtain Spanish qualifiactions etc, etc, etc.

Provided you import the boat at the same time as you decide to become resident in Spain, there is no matriculation tax to pay. The same applies to your car (BTW its impossible to import a UK car with a tow hitch into Spain - you will have to remove the tow hitch first, then once the car is imported, get a new certified tow hitch fitted at huge expense).

If you have the right RYA qualifications, you won't have to take new Spanish qualifications. In the same way, if you have a UK driving license, you don't have to retake your test in Spain if you move here.

Best advice is to do nothing until you have got good local advice. Find yourself a good gestor/lawyer in Ibiza and get them to find out exactly what licenses and paperwork you are going to need and what it will cost. You may discover you can't get a license for what you are trying to do, as all the available licenses are already taken.

One final question; where are you going to launch/recover your boat in Ibiza? AFAIK there aren't any public slipways. The people who operate the banana boat and the dive boat here have to pay to have a buoyed boat lane put in to the beach to pick up their passengers, and they can't operate until the capitan gets round to putting the boat lane in place. So bang goes a couple of months of the season each year.

Other than that, its a great idea!

 

[Steve Clayton]

I'll add that you will be required to have an AIS radio; oh and it will need to be a model approved by Spanish authorities; and whereas I chartered as a "sole trader" on my NIE then the regs have changed and you will either need to have your own Spanish company or be "associated" with a Spanish company - get's more difficult and costly now - doesn't it?

 

[Steve Clayton]

....You may discover you can't get a license for what you are trying to do, as all the available licenses are already taken.....

That's an interesting point. When our Spanish charter licence came up for renewal our gestor (www.aitamar.com) said that because we already had a licence then renewing the licence would be OK for us; but with licence management changing from Alicante Port to Valencia there was a veto in place for the issue of new non-Spanish licences.

 

[lovezoo]

Mind you, if you can get it all sorted out its not a bad lifestyle. This English guy runs day trips on his yacht here:



http://mynerja.com/view/things-to-do/sail-and-stay-yacht-charter-marina-del-este-nerja/

 

[Steve Clayton]

Mind you, if you can get it all sorted out its not a bad lifestyle.

It was good while it lasted... Spanish just got too difficult to deal with so we opted to return. Friends took this passing Cumbre del Sol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GyAKJ55EPo

Oh; and here are a couple of our guests; a well known and well respected forumite

 

[rewdan]

Wow! Lots of response which is great, keep it coming.
I hadn't considered the 'poo' bit. Others are doing it so I guess you get them to hang over the side or hold on until you make it to a beach! The trailer bit I am intending to stay UK resident so my understanding is that my UK car with my UK trailer and boat are Ok as long as they are legal in the Uk. This also means AFAIK that I don't need to matriculate the boat, but I do agree that local legal/fiscal advice is needed before jumping in too deep. There are no properly constructed slipways on the Island but if you know where to go, you are never too far from the right beach to do it. I can name 4 beaches within 3 miles of my house that boaters use as slipways, one even has signs up to show you the best place to reverse in. Then there is also the crane at my local marina. 25 euros and a flash of your insurance and they lift it in for you. I had thought about arranging car transport to pick up punters from their hotel and meet me in the boat at the fuel station in the marina. This would allow me to demonstrate the tanks being full, I would expect them to replace whatever we used. It would also allow them to get on the boat easily and be a bit of an extra service.
The licenses and equipment requirements are one of the things I need to look into and will do so on my next trip over in October. Things are much quieter then, and people much more open to talk to.
I agree with all, it would be a great lifestyle if possible. I would like to take a big rib out there anyway for extended holidays, so if I could turn it into a small business for a few months of the year then happy days!