Open or sealed batteries
- Thread starter MattS
- Start date
Graham376
Well-Known Member
And some retailers stock a standard battery and stick whichever label on you asked for, I used to deal with one!
Mistroma
Well-Known Member
+1
Probably cheap to stick 2 lumps of lead in a plastic box, add some acid and get a useless battery. The design of the grid holding the paste, plate separators, space to allow build up without shorting, quality of materials and many other factors will affect price and performance. Batteries could be similar in weight but of very different construction.
Yes, I knew someone working in a place selling batteries a very, very long time ago. I remember asking him about the difference between similar looking batteries (lorry start, caravan and marine). He said "the labels and the price". I asked how could he be certain and was told "easy, I'm usually the person asked to put the labels on when they are available for sale".
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LiftyK
Well-Known Member
With a leisure battery capacity of just one 110Ah battery, I manage to run a small chest freezer 24*7 quite happily with a 120W folding solar panel that comes out when we stop. If the solar panels are not deployed for a day and a half, the voltage does not drop below 12.5V. Usually it is 12.6-12.7. Most of the time very little charge is going into the battery as it appears to be nearly always charged. That said, I am quite frugal with usage. For example, as soon as the engine goes off while berthing, the instruments are powered off.
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
Price per kg?
Graham376
Well-Known Member
The OP only has one quarter of your solar and there may be differences in fridge insulation and size of built in box, compared to a small chest freezer. Our fridge/freezer for instance is 170 litres and poorly insulated, compressor draws 7 amps so, we need 320w to allow for that and other loads.
penberth3
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Think about off-road vehicles, bulldozers etc. 45 degrees or more without any problems.
MattS
Well-Known Member
This sounds more like my fridge setup ?
I’m not really planning to use my fridge when away from shore power for this reason (it’s power hungry) - but was using it to generate a sustained load to see what the capacity of the battery was.
Interestingly, the 12V charger I use for my tablet (Microsoft Surface) can easily draw a few amps so even running that plugged in for a day of sailing can sap quite a bit of juice.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
No, they are leisure batteries, perfectly OK for engine starting. These are not "proper" deep cycle batteries, as in something like Trojan T105s
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
That's not a fair comparison. Your Trojans are open cell and charge at a higher voltage then a sealed battery should be charged. Because of the higher voltage the batteries will gas and vent hydrogen, hence they need topping up. Any decent leisure battery isn't just an wet lead acid battery with a sticker over the filler plugs, they should be VRLA and will not lose electrolyte so will not need topping up. Fitting cheap and nasty ACME "sealed" batteries might be a different kettle of fish.
Mistroma
Well-Known Member
I don't have details to hand but did test my first set of Trojan T105s before fitting. I topped up to the correct level as per Trojan's documentation and slowly tilted them with caps off until they were very close to spilling over. I certainly got to 45 degrees but can't remember the final figure. I think tilting in the other direction was similar. I fitted them in the wrong orientation because of battery box limitations. It would have been better to fit with the plates parallel with the centreline but spillage angle wasn't a consideration.
So called sealed batteries tend to have excess electrolyte to reduce the need to re-fill. They usually need to reach a fairly high voltage before significant gassing. The ones I've looked at still have a fair amount of space above the electrolyte and I'd also expect to tilt one to 45 degrees without a problem.
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Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
When I purchased my last 2 AGMs, for domestic ( I have a Red Flash, for starter), from Alpha batteries; they advised me AGAINST buying stop start batteries for boat domestic use. I forget the reason but the chap on the phone was quite insistent. I believe one of the sites ( may be theirs) has some comments as to the reasons. I think that it was something to do with the shorter high cycle & re charge in a car as opposed to longer constant discharge before re charge in a boat domestic case. I cannot really recall.
But of course, if it works for you then that is good news
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Did not really have much choice. Bavaria have clearly got a good deal as all 5 batteries are the same!. You may well be right about the longer term cycles, I have not found any data on this, I am not a heavy user compared with, say a liveaboard and they seem fine for my pattern of usage. Maybe the fact that the domestic bank has 3 (285Ah) helps as in a typical 2-3 day trip they never get anywhere near 50% discharge. However, they are half the price of Lifelines and not much more than typical leisure batteries so worth considering.
[70521]
Well-Known Member
Good lord what are you running!
My usage is about two amps. If I turn on the fridge, a rare occasion and usually when on shore power or motoring, it is four amps. We arrive with everything for the fridge frozen and defrost when needed.
I went for AGM as they can be used at just about any angle and will take a charge faster than lead acid. 390 Ah house bank giving me about 200Ah of usable power.
MattS
Well-Known Member
Really appreciate all the comments here - learning lots.
So, with my single 110ah "Leisure" battery, what should I reasonably expect to get out of it, if it was in as new condition?
Would it be reasonable to expect to draw 5A for 10 hours? (50ah so 50% of the stated capacity?)
Would you also expect to get 2A for 25 hours? or does the profile of the current draw impact the capacity it can supply?
Last night, after 2 hours of about 2-3A draw, the voltage was down to 11.9V - that doesn't feel right. Turn everything off, and it popped back up to 12.8V
So, with my single 110ah "Leisure" battery, what should I reasonably expect to get out of it, if it was in as new condition?
Would it be reasonable to expect to draw 5A for 10 hours? (50ah so 50% of the stated capacity?)
Would you also expect to get 2A for 25 hours? or does the profile of the current draw impact the capacity it can supply?
Last night, after 2 hours of about 2-3A draw, the voltage was down to 11.9V - that doesn't feel right. Turn everything off, and it popped back up to 12.8V
Tranona
Well-Known Member
The instant voltage after use is of little value. It is the resting voltage after a few hours that gives you the state of charge. Your 12.8v immediately after switching off is a good indication that the battery is fine, but check it again a day later to see if it is holding the charge.
As to how much you can draw, the key thing is that you can rarely get a battery fully charged without mains charging. If you have a battery monitor you can see the charge rate is high when you start the engine but quickly drops down as acceptance is low the nearer you get to fully charged. Last Friday I motored back from Newtown to Poole and charge started at over 30A but quickly dropped to single figures and after 4 hours to almost nothing. Resting voltage next morning was 13.1V so pretty well full. The batteries were fully charged on shorepower before I left and one night away.
Used only maybe 15 or 20% capacity (nominal 285Ah) and 4 hours engine enough to replace. That is the value of increasing capacity. You only use a small part of each battery. Best £100 you can spend, if you have the space to fit another battery.
As to how much you can draw, the key thing is that you can rarely get a battery fully charged without mains charging. If you have a battery monitor you can see the charge rate is high when you start the engine but quickly drops down as acceptance is low the nearer you get to fully charged. Last Friday I motored back from Newtown to Poole and charge started at over 30A but quickly dropped to single figures and after 4 hours to almost nothing. Resting voltage next morning was 13.1V so pretty well full. The batteries were fully charged on shorepower before I left and one night away.
Used only maybe 15 or 20% capacity (nominal 285Ah) and 4 hours engine enough to replace. That is the value of increasing capacity. You only use a small part of each battery. Best £100 you can spend, if you have the space to fit another battery.
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
Price per kg?
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Sealed usually have a setup where the gases created can recombine into electrolyte. Or are based on a gel flooded matt.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
So quality of manufacture is nothing to do with it ?
You quote Lead ... but you are aware that Lead is just one part of the form ? There are various other additions to the lead on one electrode to increase performance ... those can be adjusted and affect quality / pricing etc.
wingcommander
Well-Known Member
Try to find th C rating of the batteries you order
Most reputable manufacturer rate at C 20 ( 20% of battery amp / hr size load test )
Some however rate at C 10 ,so not lik for like comparison.
Just back from two weeks sailing, Skipper discovered batteries ( 2 x 110 amp/ hr house 9years old 1 x 110 amp/hr start 3 year's old) at 10 volt on arrival at boat . Plugged into mains , 24 hrs later all reading circa 13 volt, so he incorrectly assumed all well. Limited electrical knowledge
About two days in plotter fades , and shuts off. He confesses his original findings.
On board testing concluded both house Kaput . ( from 13 volt from alternator chrg. down to 8 volt in less than 30 seconds with just fridge and water pump circa 9 amp draw ) just to test Yes I understand about battery chemistry ie surface reading as opposed to deeper plate readings .so checking again later confirmed.
Luckily start battery came off better, so managed to continue trip , constantly monitoring our one surveyor , every 30 min voltage reading, taken directly off terminals with multimeter ( no other monitors fitted )
Result on returning two new 110 amp/hr C 20 rate on order from Taynar. Sealed, wet cell . At 23.4 kg each
Cause as we all know a sailing boat is a sure guaranteed way of killing a battery bank . Its just a matter of working out a method of extending the process.
Agree you can only get the bank back up by plugging into mains.
Our non functioning wind generator was useless.
Although Solar would have been nice this trip , had we got it.
Most reputable manufacturer rate at C 20 ( 20% of battery amp / hr size load test )
Some however rate at C 10 ,so not lik for like comparison.
Just back from two weeks sailing, Skipper discovered batteries ( 2 x 110 amp/ hr house 9years old 1 x 110 amp/hr start 3 year's old) at 10 volt on arrival at boat . Plugged into mains , 24 hrs later all reading circa 13 volt, so he incorrectly assumed all well. Limited electrical knowledge
About two days in plotter fades , and shuts off. He confesses his original findings.
On board testing concluded both house Kaput . ( from 13 volt from alternator chrg. down to 8 volt in less than 30 seconds with just fridge and water pump circa 9 amp draw ) just to test Yes I understand about battery chemistry ie surface reading as opposed to deeper plate readings .so checking again later confirmed.
Luckily start battery came off better, so managed to continue trip , constantly monitoring our one surveyor , every 30 min voltage reading, taken directly off terminals with multimeter ( no other monitors fitted )
Result on returning two new 110 amp/hr C 20 rate on order from Taynar. Sealed, wet cell . At 23.4 kg each
Cause as we all know a sailing boat is a sure guaranteed way of killing a battery bank . Its just a matter of working out a method of extending the process.
Agree you can only get the bank back up by plugging into mains.
Our non functioning wind generator was useless.
Although Solar would have been nice this trip , had we got it.