One engine still smoking help

[omega2]

so has anyone come across rust under the manifold ,coolant low and oil more

?????

 

[Seastoke]

it always happens when i i am in Wales ,so we have lost coolant out of the sealed system ,which is cooled by raw sea water , The engine oil level has gone up ??? and after taking the manifold cover off there is rust on springs etc. has anyone seen this before .roy

 

[NormanB]

This may be more than a single point of failure.

1. Cooler leak and coolant sucked out by salt water flow, then
2. Salt water enters cooling system, then head gasket fails then
3. Sea water enters lubricating oil system then
4. Lubricating oil becomes salty and corrosion starts and
5. Water probably getting into exhaust and producing 'white smoke'.

You need to get the cooler stripped out and take the head off to have a look see. Get rid of the contaminated oil and top up with fresh oil and give everything a good oily bollicking once the head is off.

 

[omega2]

This may be more than a single point of failure.

1. Cooler leak and coolant sucked out by salt water flow, then
2. Salt water enters cooling system, then head gasket fails then
3. Sea water enters lubricating oil system then
4. Lubricating oil becomes salty and corrosion starts and
5. Water probably getting into exhaust and producing 'white smoke'.

You need to get the cooler stripped out and take the head off to have a look see. Get rid of the contaminated oil and top up with fresh oil and give everything a good oily bollicking once the head is off.

Already so advised, but worth repeating. 259 hours in ten years!! use it or lose it comes to mind. Also how many of those "hours" were actually moving the boat? or was the "smokey" used as a generator!!

 

[Seastoke]

Already so advised, but worth repeating. 259 hours in ten years!! use it or lose it comes to mind. Also how many of those "hours" were actually moving the boat? or was the "smokey" used as a generator!!

well boat has been on electric hook up with us for 4 yrs and the guy before was on hook up so who knows so this week we are going to take enderscope up to have a look at piston tops ,strip oil cooler and check and maybe take head off ,will keep peeps in the loop cheers ,roy

 

[Seastoke]

Well we are going to boat to do more investigation will update ,so hope its not fatal

 

[BruceK]

Holding thumbs there for you Roy.

 

[Seastoke]

well down the boat today ,decided to take head off so found slight rust on linings , cleaned up well so taking head for refurb still not sure where water has come from need to check head gasket ,have head pressure tested then if nothing check oil cooler ,if any one has where to look on oil cooler give us a clue ,thanks roy

 

[Seastoke]

So where is the best place to get spare for the 225ti and thanks for help ,roy

 

[burgundyben]

So where is the best place to get spare for the 225ti and thanks for help ,roy

Your local main agent is the place to go for to get spares, most stuff very reasonably priced.

Ref the rust under the manifold, those engines were spray painted from above and often the undersides of parts not well covered.

Worth taking off the turbo blankets and checking the condition underneath, the oil feed pipe to the turbo can suffer rust and split, causing a lot of oil everywhere and potential engine damage.

 

[drydog]

seastoke,
Arriving at this thread a bit late:
Thats very low hours for the engine's age. So they have stood idle for long periods of time,
Hopefully you did a compression test to establish all cylinders had 'within' spec compression. This will confirm whether a certain cylinder is low.
Thats the first thing to check.
As rings may be stuck due to lack of use - especially the piston \ s which have partially open valves which may also have weak springs.
Lack of compression in just one cylinder with siezed rings will cause smoke and a lot of blowby and cause the crankcase to breath heavily (just like a very worn engine)
Then engine timing. Slightly out and she will smoke.
Then fuel injection pump timing. - Ditto the above.

By not ruling out the above easy fixes, I'm very much afraid you are doing this the expensive way by stripping the engine without knowing what you are looking for.

The fact you have found rust in the bore indicates to me that some rings may be siezed and a compression test would identify which one.

Tell me you did do a compression test?

 

[Seastoke]

seastoke,
Arriving at this thread a bit late:
Thats very low hours for the engine's age. So they have stood idle for long periods of time,
Hopefully you did a compression test to establish all cylinders had 'within' spec compression. This will confirm whether a certain cylinder is low.
Thats the first thing to check.
As rings may be stuck due to lack of use - especially the piston \ s which have partially open valves which may also have weak springs.
Lack of compression in just one cylinder with siezed rings will cause smoke and a lot of blowby and cause the crankcase to breath heavily (just like a very worn engine)
Then engine timing. Slightly out and she will smoke.
Then fuel injection pump timing. - Ditto the above.

By not ruling out the above easy fixes, I'm very much afraid you are doing this the expensive way by stripping the engine without knowing what you are looking for.

The fact you have found rust in the bore indicates to me that some rings may be siezed and a compression test would identify which one.

Tell me you did do a compression test?

unfortunately not ,but the general thought that the gasket has gone on the oil cooler , i hope so

 

[Seastoke]

So have had the head back new valves etc ,and still chasing where the sea water got in so next week we are going to take the raw water pump off as suggested by vp ,and take an enderscope to look inside the engine to see if it is ok ,!!!! Also would you take the turbo off and check seals on that ,thanks for replies ,roy

 

[QBhoy]

Hi
I think I have read all of the posts and got the general jist of it...but had a few shandy's now, so excuse if I am going over what's already advised...
You say that it's evident that there is signs of water in cylinders after pulling the head...? Is it SW or FW ? FW would suggest that your header tank level would be dripping in level. SW would suggest it is on your SW cooling side...obviously.
It is probably unlikely to be your oil cooler interface m. This being the case, I'd imagine that your dump oil might be affected and slightly milky, depending on the dominant force between oil and coolant.
If it's not your head gasket, I would be thinking injector tube cooling interface (if applicable on this engine) or liners worn as a result of glazing after such low hours. Low hours might suggest the engines have been used to charge batteries in a marina somewhere and have perhaps never really been under any real load, as all diesels deserve and need. They just don't work well or last well, unless they are worked hard.
Finally, I don't remember anyone confirming what colour the smoke was.
Was it blueish? =burning oil
Was it white ? = too much air, not enough fuel
Was is black ? = too much fuel, not enough air (or a sign of engine not reaching optimum revs to work the turbo and combust the fuel air mixture as it's designed to.
Or was it indeed white steam and cooling water flashing off ?
Perhaps the rusty bores are just a sign of in frequent use and your problem is elsewhere ? If it's a sticky ring, hold the fuel off the governor/fuel pump and turn her over with loads of oil down the bores, then run her hard.
If it was a serious water leak by an interface, water would be evident in the sumo oil.

 

[QBhoy]

Sump oil even.....bloody phone keypad !

 

[Seastoke]

Sump oil even.....bloody phone keypad !

Hi qboy ye well it was grey smoke or steam the ,fw water was low we think it is sea water because the sprigs etc were so rusty which ever it is it has made the oil like gunge and apart from getting in the sump it has also got in the exhaust ports

 

[omega2]

Get your exhaust manifold off and have it pressure checked, we found our problem to be that, the
exhaust gasses were getting into the cooling jacket, thus pressurising the whole fresh system, and pushing water into the exhaust gas outlet, so we were sending water out with the exhaust through the turbo as well as the the elbow, when stopped after a run we saw water running out of the turbo housing. Having removed the inlet and exhaust manifolds we found the inlet ports damp. The exhaust manifold was dissected and the pipe was found to be cracked on no.3 cylinder. This was rewelded and the jacket welded up.

 

[Seastoke]

Hi omega was this on Perkins and did you get water in the oil at all ,but we have got grunge in the exhaust ports ,so will have it checked and thanks for reply

 

[omega2]

Hi omega was this on Perkins and did you get water in the oil at all ,but we have got grunge in the exhaust ports ,so will have it checked and thanks for reply

Already stated ours is a Ford Sabre 180, not up on Perkins, but if your head has been checked and nothing found, then the water has to be getting in elsewhere? already posted is maybe the turbo seals? if yours is watercooled could be sending water to sump via the dump pipe, or as we found the exhaust system. Are you sure cylinder liners are not to blame. This rust you refer to is that inside the rocker box on the valve springs?

 

[Seastoke]

Already stated ours is a Ford Sabre 180, not up on Perkins, but if your head has been checked and nothing found, then the water has to be getting in elsewhere? already posted is maybe the turbo seals? if yours is watercooled could be sending water to sump via the dump pipe, or as we found the exhaust system. Are you sure cylinder liners are not to blame. This rust you refer to is that inside the rocker box on the valve springs?

yes ,and we are going to look inside engine with endoscope