one battery gone bust

[vas]

that is literally!

over the winter months, I did notice that if I removed shore power, 28 or so V dropped straight to 11-12V. Didn't bother that much as batteries were shot and were there just to get the systems running.
So yesterday went down to the e/r to sort out some wiring for a relay and saw this:

no wonder it went down to 12V

I'll try and pick the pieces and make sure I've got all of them. What confuses me is that the chemicals haven't affected the epoxy the slightest.
I mean it was a fully rotten piece of ply where the 6X180Ah as in 6X55kg 330kg batteries lived, fully restored and renewed a couple of years ago as part of the rebuilt. Now I see some slight marking from acids but nothing a light sand wont clean and a couple of new coats of epoxy wont restore fully.
Am I right?
Needless to say there's no smell, liquids or anything odd down there, so I assume it took place months ago (probably around xmas time - if not before that!)

cheers

V.

PS. 4batteries will be ordered this week, batteries disconnected, so all systems take current straight from the Victron 24V 60A charger

 

[longjohnsilver]

That looks nasty Vas, lucky not to have more damage! Or even worse, a fire. I wonder what caused it?

 

[vas]

That looks nasty Vas, lucky not to have more damage! Or even worse, a fire. I wonder what caused it?

I wonder as well!

batteries are (or rather were) 7+yo and I'd kept the best two out of 6 (other four went for recycling last year) They are the sealed type with the small window on top with the colour indicating if it's ok or not. However, when charged/checked with the right tool most were dead and these two were sortof ok...
Will be getting some new normal lead acid with proper screw on caps so that I can check and top up juices onto them.
Victron hasn't got a battery temp sensor, but don't get me into that, not changing it!

cheers

V.

 

[rafiki_]

Yes, I don't think that particular battery will recover. . Good news that damage is very slight, so no real harm done.

 

[omega2]

When you have replaced the batteries, throw the shore power lead away, that's what has done the damage!!

 

[vas]

When you have replaced the batteries, throw the shore power lead away, that's what has done the damage!!

care to explain please?

I'm in Greece, I do have a proper shore power plug on the boat, BUT and it's a big BUT, I have to use schuko plugs for the current (input from the boatyard). That means I do not know the proper orientation, phase vs the other as it gets in the boat. I knew it's an issue I have to address, and tbh been too busy with other things to bother, but I think I have to get a device or something to make sure that the phase is where it should be.

Comments please?

cheers

V

 

[vas]

Yes, I don't think that particular battery will recover. . Good news that damage is very slight, so no real harm done.

yes thought so, but tbh was about to order new batteries anyway, got a quote last week for that (but didn't really like the price )

I'm more concerned on how to get this mess out of there, but luckily there's no juice anywhere so wont burn my fingers it seems

cheers

V.

 

[Barleycorn]

I had the same with the 'domestic' battery on a camper van. It was out of season and I knew the battery was shot, but wasn't going to replace it until the start of the following season.
Hammering down the A34 and the battery exploded, similar to your picture.
Luckily I was near an agricultural dealership that we use, and I was able to borrow the pressure washer to try to get rid of all the acid. Gave us a hell of a fright though!

 

[omega2]

care to explain please?

I'm in Greece, I do have a proper shore power plug on the boat, BUT and it's a big BUT, I have to use schuko plugs for the current (input from the boatyard). That means I do not know the proper orientation, phase vs the other as it gets in the boat. I knew it's an issue I have to address, and tbh been too busy with other things to bother, but I think I have to get a device or something to make sure that the phase is where it should be.

Comments please?

cheers

V

The charging system boiled the battery dry, unless they are kept topped up they will "blow" up worse still if a bad one is in the starting bank the starter motor will get damaged as well. Take the batteries home if you are worried they will go flat, at least there you will be able to see what's going on.

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/13446-overcharged-lead-acid-battery-what-do

 

[vas]

The charging system boiled the battery dry, unless they are kept topped up they will "blow" up worse still if a bad one is in the starting bank the starter motor will get damaged as well. Take the batteries home if you are worried they will go flat, at least there you will be able to see what's going on.

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/13446-overcharged-lead-acid-battery-what-do

only problem is that these were some LA sealed batteries so no way to top them up, just a silly 1p coin size glass indicator going green or white or something when they are bad...
Hence I'm buying normal open top batteries to be able check and top up when needed.

V.

 

[omega2]

My argument still stands do not allow charging when you are not present.

https://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110303010646AA27nRP

 

[Ragnahex]

or at least make sure the charging system you have in place does not over charge a battery

 

[BartW]

Victron hasn't got a battery temp sensor

Vas, I don't remember which charger Model you have,
but most modern intelligent Victron chargers have a temp sensor,

is your charger a intelligent version ?
in that sense that it stops charging when the battery's are full ? (float status)
its worth checking (perhaps you know / you did)
do you have the orriginal manual ?

re. correct fase of a shore 230V supply
I never ever checked the Phase / neutral pin, of a 230V shore supply, I wonder if anybody ever does,
I don't understand why this could have any influence on your battery explosion.

 

[vas]

sorry, I've been posting whilst trying to do a few other things at the same time...

My argument still stands do not allow charging when you are not present.

https://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110303010646AA27nRP

I appreciate your input, but sounds rather dogmatic and unsubstantiated. Do you imply that all the craft which are permanently on shore power are potential hazards?

or at least make sure the charging system you have in place does not over charge a battery

shouldn't, has been checked and the Vmeter shows what it should all the time.

Vas, I don't remember which charger Model you have,
but most modern intelligent Victron chargers have a temp sensor,

is your charger a intelligent version ?
in that sense that it stops charging when the battery's are full ? (float status)
its worth checking (perhaps you know / you did)
do you have the orriginal manual ?

re. correct fase of a shore 230V supply
I never ever checked the Phase / neutral pin, of a 230V shore supply, I wonder if anybody ever does,
I don't understand why this could have any influence on your battery explosion.

OK,

It's a Centaur Victron 24V/60A. online manual I just found says:

Technology
The Centaur Charger is a fully high-frequency switched battery
charger. The input is electronically power factor corrected by the
first power stage.
The next stage gives provision for galvanic isolation and a perfect
DC voltage at the output terminals.
The internal electronic parts are protected against moisture and
dirt by means of a special coating, which assures a long lifetime of
your battery charger.
Three high-capacity batteries can be charged simultaneously with
this charger.
Operation
The battery charger charges the battery with 3-stage (Bulk-
Absorption-Float) charging characteristic. It can remain connected
to the battery continuously, without increased gas formation,
caused by overcharging, taking place.
The charger can be used for different types of batteries but the
default settings are for Gel batteries.

So yes, it's a three stage job, dunno if that qualifies as intelligent, but I guess it does.
It was originally dip switched to gel, have changed that to LA.

Out of the 2X2X180Ah service and 2X180Ah start batteries, over the last year it's been working with just a couple of the "good"/bad 180Ah. And they haven't been holding charge well at all. During August before I picked up the office day job, the batteries would run the 80lt fridge for just 4-5h before dying, hardly impressive.

Now, why it exploded, I don't know, but it probably was rather empty judging from the lack of any serious spillage around.

Anyway, I'm most impressed by the lack of damage to the epoxy, the rest I don't really mind. A couple of hours cleaning, chucking them out, a new coat of epoxy and in they go.

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

re. correct fase of a shore 230V supply
I never ever checked the Phase / neutral pin, of a 230V shore supply, I wonder if anybody ever does,
I don't understand why this could have any influence on your battery explosion.

Ah, no, I didn't mean they are related, just something that I have to search a bit as it seems odd not to have the current flowing the "right way" around throughout the el/panel and appliances (to my eyes at least)

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

hm, i'm either thick or the temp sensor can be "internal"
another manual for the same charger states:

Temperature sensor Internal, - 2mV / °C (- 1mV / °F) per cell

anyone care to explain? Do intelligent chargers have thermistors (or whatever) inside their box, checking the temp of the charging cables, or what?

cheers

V.

 

[mad_boater]

My argument still stands do not allow charging when you are not present.

https://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110303010646AA27nRP

We disconnect the shore power if we leave the boat on the marina

Helps with electrolysis as well

Don't like leaving things connected when we are not around

 

[BartW]

re current flowing the "right" way;
in a AC system, the current direction alternates 50 times / second,
there is no right nor wrong direction,
and there isn't any "preferred " direction ;-)
but you know al that.

Re Victron,
yes you have what I call a "intelligent" charger,

It might have a connection for a temp sensor.
the temp sensor supplied with modern Victron chargers is a crimped in a Cable shoe, with a red/black wire on it
the cable shoe is supposed to be mounted on one of the battery terminals, thats where a raise in batt. temp is first noticeable / sensed.

the connection of that sensor cable is inside in the Victron, on a pair of very small screw terminals (for 1.5mm2 wires)
the manual should explain where the connection is,
If you find a connection for that (you have to open the Centaur) then I'll send you a sensor in the post.


but I don't think that the temp sensor would have avoided your explosion,
I gues that one battery was bad, one element shorted (?)
So the Victron charger reacted with more charge current, ....
just a guess, we'll never know for sure

Vas I'm so impressed with your OCD finishing of all parts of the boat,
as you say, almost no traces of the explosion / leaking of the bad battery,
you don't limit yourself of just a little cleaning,
no you add a new layer of epoxy,instead,
to make it look good even underneath the battery's
much respect to your patience !!!

 

[omega2]

We disconnect the shore power if we leave the boat on the marina

Helps with electrolysis as well

Don't like leaving things connected when we are not around

+1 !!

Please read this.

https://www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/44343/Alert-Battery-explosionsv3.pdf

 

[annageek]

Wow!

How well ventilated in the area in which your batteries were charging? It looks to me almost as if you've had a hydrogen explosion. If the batteries were knackered when they were put on charge, they would be venting hydrogen. You only need about 4% in any atmosphere to create a real explosive risk.

Have you any switchy things (relays/contactors) in the vacinity that could have been a source of ignition?

Do intelligent chargers have thermistors (or whatever) inside their box, checking the temp of the charging cables, or what?
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?429538-one-battery-gone-bust/page2#XrhHvOljLdsjQugA.99

Some chargers I have come across just internal temperature measurement (thermistor on the PCB). This is presumably on the grounds that the charger tends to be close to the batteries, and generally runs slightly hotter than the batteries anyway, so the charge regime can be very crudely adjusted in line with the charger's internal temperature. It's not perfect, but its probably better than no temperature compensation at all.