On being "Hove to"...

Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

I find that I can make the boat lie about 60 deg off the wind by tacking with the genoa hard in then, when hove-to, loosing the genoa a bit so that she comes more up to wind. I guess keel and rudder configuration has an effect. Flying Fox has got a long stub keel with a centreboard that is likely to be fully down at that stage plus a transom hung rudder.
 
Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

[ QUOTE ]
(cut)I have the luxury of being the only boat in site quite often.

[/ QUOTE ]

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Is that the only boat on the building site? No wonder you sail alone!
 
Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

Better being in site than in shite I suppose /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

[ QUOTE ]
Better being in site than in shite I suppose /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

So when I, sailing single-handed, heave-to (on starboard tack) to pop below for a dump, exactly what signal should I make? If your answer is NUC, and given that my mast and shrouds will be obscured by the sails, exactly where should I put my balls?
 
Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

No I'm not Daka

Sorry to disagree with you but, according to this a vessel that is hove to is one that has come up into the wind and stopped. What sails she has set is immaterial. Consequently under the colregs definitions she is under way not making way. The definition of a sailing vessel is "one propelled by sails alone" Thus if properly hove to (eg stopped) the vessel is not "propelled by sails" and the mobos give way rule doesn't apply. Its hardly likely to make any difference anyway as if she is properly hove to (stationary) other vessels will simply steer to avoid her anyway.
Quote:
Whether it is stationary or not doesn't affect its rights.

If its not stationary its not actually hove to - you can't be hove to and on the port tack - these are mutually exclusive. Seems like confusion about what being hove to actually means. As you must know as you quoted them to me, the colregs don't give anyone any automatic "right of way".
 
Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

Heaving to or reefing?

Assuming I'm doing both, it can be a relaxed affair if done in good time. Hectic if done late. As Cleone is an old gaff yawl, with a full length keel, its quite relaxed.

Heaving to: just like a 'normal' boat. Tack from Port tack to Starboard but leave the staysail alone, ease the main a bit. Furl the jib on its Wickham Martin gear. Leave helm lashed to leeward. As the boat has a deep forefoot, she'll actually sit very solid and still with the staysail backed.

Reefing:
Harden up the weather topping lift, and take a bit of slack out of the lee lift. harden the main till you can comfortable reach the reefing lines from the leech. Slacken of both peak and throat halyards of the gaff. This sounds hard but the gaff is on a 5 part blocks so its an easy weight. The gaff brings the sail down. Luff is only on wood hoops so never jams.

Secure the luff reef earing at the tack. Haul out the reef pendant line at the clew and secure. Gather the loose bunt of the sail and tidy it up with the reefing points (this can be done when you are moving again.

Haul the gaff back up and secure. Slacken the lifts off. Back to the cockpit and pull the staysail round to leeward, unroll the jib and off you go again. This all sounds complicated but as the extra topping lift and jib are the only additions to a bermudan rig, the effort is almost identical.
 
Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

You maybe should try heaving to on a sailing boat to understand it.

You will probably still be fore reaching at maybe a knot or two, almost certainly making some leeway.

You will definitely be being propelled by sails alone.

Also by your logic, a vessel that is stationary for some reason must give way to a Mobo. That's omething that wuld be intersting - moving without moving.

You are right on one point though - nobody has right of way, it is stand on vessel.
 
Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

Actually that isn't the logical conclusion - if neither vessel ranks higher than the other in the colregs give way list then neither vessel has right of way and both skippers must take the appropriate action to avoid a collision.

In the situation where a sailing vessel is properly hove to - eg stationary (not making a knot or two due to sails being set) and there is a risk of collision with a mobo the skippers will have to both take action and be keeping a proper watch.

What if in this hypothetical situation the mobo is also hove to with engines off and there is risk of collision due to leeway? Who should take action then?
 
Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

Where do you get "propelled by sails " from? The COLREGS definition is "The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used." (Rule 3c). It does not require movement through the water, just flappy fabric things.

Stopped when hove-to might be ideal but in reality most sailing boats will move forward slowly but so what, the relevant rule is :

"Rule 18 Responsibilities Between Vessels
Except where rule 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:
(a) A power driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
* (i)a vessel not under command;
* (ii)a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
* (iii)a vessel engaged in fishing;
* (iv)a sailing vessel;"

So if the mobo is underway and not being overtaken it doesn't really matter what a saily boat does as long as it doesn't drop its sails or put its engine in gear - the mobo is giveway vessel.
 
Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

Quote:
The COLREGS definition is "The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail....

If she's "under sail" she can't be properly hove to. To be hove to means to be stationary.

If she's "hove to" she's not "under sail" so doesn't qualify as a sailing vessel.

This does seem to be a misunderstanding of what being properly "hove to" actually means.
 
Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

[ QUOTE ]
To be hove to means to be stationary.

If she's "hove to" she's not "under sail" so doesn't qualify as a sailing vessel.

This does seem to be a misunderstanding of what being properly "hove to" actually means.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right on your last point - YOU dont understand it.

Hove To does not mean to be stationary, in fact its virtually impossible to be so, as there is some drive from the sails.

If the boat has sails up, and is not anchored to the bottom in any way she is under sail, ie under way, and probably making way as above,
 
Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

By your definition, a sailing boat under way and sailing - with no wind and therefore not making way - may have to get out of the way of a motor vessel.

I hope that even you agree that this is not the case!

Re. vessel hove to - under normal circumstances such a vessel can 'unhove-to' easily - so in your scenario where such a boat needs to get out of the way of a power driven vessel, she will then be sailing and therefore becomes the stand-on vessel - even by your own thinking.

However, a hove-to sailing boat is still under way, whether she is making (much) way or not, and the rules apply accordingly, as others have said.
 
Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

Your specious nautical dictionary is wrong.

Hove to is not "A vessel that has come up into the wind and stopped"

If anything such a vessel wold be said to be "in irons".

A hove to vessel has set some sails to one side and some to another, such that in conjunction with the rudder they counteract each other to bring the vessel almost to halt. Depending on the underwater shape of the vessel and the size and position of the sails, the vessel will either be almost stationary, or making way sideways at a speed of up to about a knot and a bit.
 
Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

[ QUOTE ]
What if in this hypothetical situation the mobo is also hove to with engines off

[/ QUOTE ]
A motor boat cannot ever be hove to. You are adrift, not hove to.

Get a life DAKA.

- W
 
Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

Agreed. Unless anchored or moored a sailing yacht will always make some headway. That is why it is sensible to heave to on starboard tack to maintain right of way.
 
Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

I realise the similarity in style to Daka, but this guy has given the real name of a real boat in a real marina - unlikely for a pseudonym, I'd have thought.

I think he is a genuine guy who just doesnt quite understand the rules correctly, which is fair enough - we were all there once upon a time, some are still.
 
Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

[ QUOTE ]
That is why it is sensible to heave to on starboard tack to maintain right of way.

[/ QUOTE ]

[pedant] Between boats racing perhaps, but the COLREGS do not mention "right of way", only "give way" and "stand on"[/pedant]
 
Re: On being \"Hove to\"...

Guys, I really am not Daka. Although I am showing up as a new poster I have lurked occasionally on the forums for some time before deciding that I had some input worth considering recently.

I really didn't want to stir up such a hornet's nest with one of my first few posts, although I am gratified that people have felt strongly enough to reply and respond. Please don't think that I am trying to troll here or cause offence - that was the last thing I wanted to do. My intention in posting my first comment was to correct something that I understand to be wrong. It was a single sentence intended to refute the suggestion that a hove to vessel has any "rights" over other vessels.

Having said that, there still seems to be a lot of confusion as to what being "hove to" actually means - people still talking about being hove to on the starboard tack, or while under sail, or while still moving.

This is the original definition of being "hove to" that I posted, and here is another one to support it - see the section on phrasal verbs. If like twister ken you disagree then please feel free to post a link to a 3rd party web site supporting your definition of what it means to be "hove to".

From my knowledge of sailing history the term "hove to" came into usage in the RN in the 17th/18th centuries in regard to three-masted, square-rigged ships of the line (2000 tonners) when they wanted to stop at a specific location to drop anchor etc. Thus the procedure was to turn up into the wind until the way came off the ship - this became known as heaving to. To actually make the ship stationary apart from drift.

This obviously differs hugely from what you guys seem to understand as "heaving to" in modern sailing parlance, but as I understand it a boat that is still making any way under sail (even only 1 - 2 knots) or that is still propelled in any direction by her sails is not "hove to" by the strict definition of the term.

Consequently -

Quote from webcraft
A motor boat cannot ever be hove to. You are adrift, not hove to.
Wrong - see my second citation, part 2.

Quote from Twister_ken
A hove to vessel has set some sails to one side and some to another, such that in conjunction with the rudder they counteract each other to bring the vessel almost to halt.

If you are only "almost" at a halt then you are not actually hove to. You are just slowing down.
BTW - "heaving to" is a deliberate act, being caught "in irons" is usually the result of some sort of cockup. Not the same thing at all.

Quote from Pye_end
By your definition, a sailing boat under way and sailing - with no wind and therefore not making way - may have to get out of the way of a motor vessel.

That's not what I was talking about at all - I was referring to the situation where the vessel normally propelled by sails is hove to - eg is explicitly NOT actually sailing, just under way but stationary. Under the colregs this vessel does not have to be given way to by other vessels, regardless of what form of propulsion the other vessel may have. I was talking about a motor vessel with its engines off.

In the situation where a vessel of any kind is hove to and there is a risk of collision it is the duty of both skippers to maintain a good lookout and take appropriate action. This would mean that the skipper of a hove to sail boat can't take too long on the b*g or linger over his coffee down below, as he may need to take action to avoid a vessel that is NUC or also drifting while hove to. He can't rely on other vessels automatically avoiding him to observe the colregs just because he is a sail boat when "hove to" - that's all of the point I was trying to make.
 
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