Older, better Beneteaus and Jeanneaus. Which ones?

[cmedsailor]

I read quite often in forums that older Beneteaus and Jeanneaus where better built. I cannot really comment myself for this but just out of curiosity which are these older models you would consider better built?
Thanks

 

[millbeach]

I bought Jeaneau fantasia 27ft lift keel 18 months ago.
Sails really well.
Very good quality, has nice mahogany floor and cabin.
Lift keel realy handy, on south coast.
Overall strong quality, cant praise it to much..
ps. 1984 model...

 

[Mr Cassandra]

I read quite often in forums that older Beneteaus and Jeanneaus where better built. I cannot really comment myself for this but just out of curiosity which are these older models you would consider better built?
Thanks

I ve owned a Jeanneau Sun Magic 44 for 18 teen years ,had a look on a lot of newer Jens and bens and will admit they use the space better, I would not want to sacrifice the quality in buying one.
I have been on a few Swedish made boats and cannot see the 200,000euro difference. Not saying that they are not better ,just not 200,000euro

 

[Monique]

If considering BenJen of older times, there are 2 other froggy manufacturers of nice quality boats worth considering...

Think Wauquiez and Dufour: both have a reputation of better build than the 2 you mention. Also the early Bavs were far better built than the newer ons... so I hear.

GL

 

[30boat]

The "80s Jeanneaus are generaly very well put together.Some will even sail very well like the Sun Fizz .The Beneteaus of that time had a problem with dodgy gelcoat and many had bad osmosis although should have been fixed by now.
The First range of the early 80s was very pretty and well built.The First 32,34 and 37 are great.The First 42 by German Frers is beautiful and goes very well but I read they're not as strong.One sank on a around the world trip when water was found inside but the leak couldn't be traced because of the interior lining that blocked access to the hull.

 

[cmedsailor]

If considering BenJen of older times, there are 2 other froggy manufacturers of nice quality boats worth considering...

Think Wauquiez and Dufour: both have a reputation of better build than the 2 you mention. Also the early Bavs were far better built than the newer ons... so I hear.

GL

No, I am not considering buying a BenJen of older times. In fact I do own a 2002 Beneteau Oceanis 361, though despite not been old (neither really new as it uses the First 35S7 hull) I don't know if it falls into that "better built" category.
Just to mention that as long as osmosis is concerned I was really suprised to find out after I bought it that they used vinylester resin on that model, a material I believe that is used for much more expensive boats.

 

[Tranona]

The whole issue of "better" is misleading. During the 1990's there were step changes in design, materials and particularly production methods that invariably resulted in "better" boats in that they satisfied cutomer needs. General trends were lighter displacement, better more durable materials and better equipment. There were, of course some mistakes, but generally most changes were improvements.

The older, better built hypothesis comes mainly from the belief that heavier displacement and hand built boats were better than later mass produced versions.

Vinylester resins have been commonly used for many years as builders learned more about GRP and how to minimise osmosis. Hull construction and materials is one area where technical changes have lead to general improvements and boats built today use technology that simply was not available 20 or 30 years ago.

Does not really answer your question, because in my experience not all changes are for the better and often good features of earlier designs are lost, but in some ways it is rather pointless making comparisons witht he past - if you like boats from the past then there is plenty of choice in the SH market, and if you want to buy a new boat then you assess what is available at the time

 

[Ubergeekian]

Vinylester resins have been commonly used for many years as builders learned more about GRP and how to minimise osmosis. Hull construction and materials is one area where technical changes have lead to general improvements and boats built today use technology that simply was not available 20 or 30 years ago.

So why do I see postings here from people with osmosis problems (insofar as osmosis is a problem, of course) on boats under ten years old?

 

[V1701]

I have an '89 Jeanneau Sun-Dream 28. Mine's actually 29 1/2 feet/9m and the later ('93 to '97) Sun Odyssey 30 (Yachtsnet Archive link) used the same moulds. The sugar scoop at the back was an option on the Sun-Dream 28, all those I have seen have had the scoop. She sails well and the interior (lots of wood, mostly ply veneeer that's stood up very well) and use of space inside is fantastic for the year. Original brochure here. I'm very happy with her...

From Yachtsnet Archives: "These slightly older Jeanneaus share a family resemblance to current models, but may actually be better sailing boats thanks to narrower stern sections."

From brochure: "The fibreglass cloth is laid-up and rolled by hand at constant temperature, the stringers and bulkheads are bonded to the hull by lamination, the deck-hull joint is laminated over in the traditional way, inner moulds are for aesthetic reasons never for structural, the keel is epoxy treated."

 

[Salty]

Sunn Fizz

A friend's experience with his Sun Fizz on which he has done some very serious distance sailing (cruising and racing) makes me very well disposed towards that particular boat, especially as you can pick them up for a song now.

 

[Resolution]

So why do I see postings here from people with osmosis problems (insofar as osmosis is a problem, of course) on boats under ten years old?

In five years as a Jeanneau dealer I don't recall a single case of Osmosis. The factory hull warranty was for 5 years and there were very few claims in this area. I think Tranona summarised accurately.

 

[Robin]

A friend's experience with his Sun Fizz on which he has done some very serious distance sailing (cruising and racing) makes me very well disposed towards that particular boat, especially as you can pick them up for a song now.

We have friends with a really superb Jeanneau Sun Fizz and we actually bought our Jeanneau Sun Legende 41 having been impressed by theirs. The Sun Legende was the replacement for the Sun Fizz, slightly larger but very similar traditional layout. The Sun Fizz was designed by Philipe Briande for the Ostar Transat race then became a big selling cruiser/racer, the Sun Legende was designed by Doug Peterson for the One Ton Cup (won SORC down under) and was a French Admiral's Cup team member before also becoming a big selling cruiser/racer. IMO the Sun Legende is the better, faster in light winds and just that bit more roomy below, excellent comfy ergonomic cockpit too. All the 'name' designer Jeanneaus were good boats however and that was a feature back then, names like Peterson and Castro. Sun Magic was another goodie too. Older Jennies like the Melody had a good reputation.

Of the Bennys, I always liked the First 38, replaced later by the First 375 very pretty and quick but quite a bit smaller than the name suggested, the First 40 and 42 point somethings were always good too. Our Sun Fizz friends referred to above had a First 32 that was also good.

 

[Tranona]

So why do I see postings here from people with osmosis problems (insofar as osmosis is a problem, of course) on boats under ten years old?

As you know, I am a fairly regular reader of these fora and I don't recall many posts of this type apart from a couple of complaints about a certain well known Scandinavian yard - but guess these were probably oddities.

Don't think there is any doubt that improvements in materials and processes in the last 20 years have significantly reduced the various problems associated with GRP hulls.

 

[Sans Bateau]

As you know, I am a fairly regular reader of these fora and I don't recall many posts of this type apart from a couple of complaints about a certain well known Scandinavian yard - but guess these were probably oddities.

Don't think there is any doubt that improvements in materials and processes in the last 20 years have significantly reduced the various problems associated with GRP hulls.

Mmm glad you posted that, I thought it was just me who had not seen the posts referred to.

 

[saltyrob]

Hi,

Sailed in friends Beneteau First 305, great boat in terms of performance and robustness.Sailed hard and frequently in strong winds.

Rob

 

[Ubergeekian]

Mmm glad you posted that, I thought it was just me who had not seen the posts referred to.

Maybe "last ten years" was a bit recent, but people asking advice about osmosis treatment are very often talking about things more recent than a seventies Centaur, no? The nineties in particular seem to be a very bad decade for it - the advent of lighter construction before better resins, perhaps?

 

[Tranona]

Maybe "last ten years" was a bit recent, but people asking advice about osmosis treatment are very often talking about things more recent than a seventies Centaur, no? The nineties in particular seem to be a very bad decade for it - the advent of lighter construction before better resins, perhaps?

No, osmosis is unconnected with "lighter construction" - rather the opposite!

Bit of a generalisation (and I speak from having been involved with osmosis prone structures) to do with property of resins and conditions when moulding. The more you poured into the mould (built like a ....) if the resins are poor, laminates not properly consolidated and not cured correctly, the more potential for failure.

Better material, better processes and more intelligent design of structures has lead to improved products.

 

[doug748]

Don't think there is any doubt that improvements in materials and processes in the last 20 years have significantly reduced the various problems associated with GRP hulls.

I see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qyfqu6TLbo

 

[Tranona]

I see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qyfqu6TLbo

Not sure what point you are trying to make - other than problems have not been eliminated!

You don't see queues of 20 year old boats waiting for "osmosis treatment" these days.

You can always expect potential problems when the boundaries of design and materials are being pushed, but in general mass production boats suffer little from such problems.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

So why do I see postings here from people with osmosis problems (insofar as osmosis is a problem, of course) on boats under ten years old?

I can't pretend to understand any of this fully but I have read Fibre Glass Boats by Hugo De Plessis and it's pretty clearly stated in there that blisters (osmosis is the wrong term apparently) form exclusively where a void exists. No void. No blister.

Older construction methods lead to a lot of voids.

Apparently modern construction methods leave few or no voids therefore it's entirely possible (inevitable?) that modern boats will not get blisters - ever.

You'd need to double check my memory on all of that.

"Fibre Glass Boats" is a must read. It's actually a page turner - I got it as a reference book and was amazed to find myself addicted & reading it cover to cover in one hit.