Old Flares - New Flares - Do we need them ??

[Guest]

Hate to be questioning a hundred year old tradition but do we actually need flares nowadays?

I have a fixed VHF and a Portable VHF and for the cost of an Offshore Flare Pack I could probably pick up another Portable VHF as a second back-up.

Logic tells me that:

o I can fix my position with GPS to within a few feet. I therefore no longer need to wave a flare about to let someone know where I am.

o If I am close enough to the shore for anyone to see my flare I will be close enough to use the VHF and call the CG.

o If I am far enough offshore to be out of VHF range then anyone out there who can see a flare will also have a VHF radio tuned in.

Most of us carry enough pyrotechnics to start a war. There must be a risk involved with carrying a load of semi-stable pyrotechnics (50% of which are "out of date") on a boat but does the benefit outweigh the risks?

On the boat all safety equipment (including the flares) are readily available for use in an emergency. At home my shotgun is secured in a double locked cabinet. What are the chances of needing a flare in a hurry compared with the chances of a young grandchild deciding that letting off a firework would be "fun"?

On the other hand if I keep my flares in a double locked cabinet on the boat will I be able to get to them in time if I need them?

Assuming that flares are a necessary evil then how many flares should we carry? The recommendations haven't changed for donkeys years and they were set when very few boats (including commercial ships) had VHF.

If we do need flares then should we carry just one of each type (handheld, parachute and smoke)? OK - if no-one sees the first flare then maybe we need two. On the other hand if no-one saw the first flare why should anyone see the second one, or third or fourth for that matter?

The whole "flare thing" is a real puzzle to me.

Has anyone out there ever used one in anger?

Did it have the desired effect?

Why wasn't a VHF message used?

Has anyone had an accident with a flare?

Has anyone really needed a flare and then found out it didn't work?

Answers on the back of a postcard please to .............

Best regards )

Ian D

 

[Guest]

Ian,,Firstly your problem maybe total electrical fialure, which would render your radio somewhat useless, secondly, whilst Lifeboats can DF its always useful to give a visual position (by flare) Thirdly, if a SAR helicopter is used a flare will not only give your position but the smoke will give "surface wind speed and I-dent", Forthly you assume that you are still on the boat and have not "abandoned" and finally as an RNLI Sea Check advisor, it is one of the things that the RNLI require you to carry as an essential item. Its up to you mate, if you want rescuing then why not go with what the rescuers ask for!!!!

 

[jamesjermain]

DSC

I would add that, if you put out a Mayday on a DSC radio, the alarm will not be picked up by ships in the region. You will either have to call them on Channel 16, which they may not be monitoring these days, or their bridge to bridge calling Channel or send up a flare.

JJ

 

[tony_brighton]

Re: DSC

Sorry JJ is there a typo here? Are you suggesting that DSC maydays won't be picked up by passing ships? I thought it was a component of GMDSS...

 

[Twister_Ken]

Anyway, they\'re pretty

I especially like orange smoke.

 

[Danny]

Re: Anyway, they\'re pretty

The one flare you should carry is the white flare which you can let off to attract the attention of a ship/trawler which is about to run you down and does not respond to the radio. Directed at the wheelhouse is best.

 

[Guest]

One day when you actually go all the way out of the harbour you may need them......till then you can quite safely stick to the radio. hey why bother with the radio, why not just ring your mom on the mobile?

 

[Guest]

Ten years ago -well into the VHF era - I sighted a parachute flare off the coast of Gotland, in the Baltic sea. I called up Stockholm Radio who connected me to the rescue service. Several hours, lifeboat and helicopter launces later they found a sailing yacht drifting towards Poland (not a nice place to arrive in without a visa in those days), having lost their rig. My guess is that they, as most of us do, had their main VHF antenna in the masthead.

The nice thing was that, as we had lost contact with the rescue service as we sailed on, they later called us up on the VHF to thank us for the assistance. Up to that point we did not know whether the flare had been fired in anger or not and wheter the search had been successful.


Andreas

 

[Guest]

Don't get personal.

I've probably wrung more seawater out of my socks than you've sailed over lad.

 

[Guest]

Probably true, and I have no intentrion of arguing the point. Having been in the situation of a sinking boat where all electricals had failed due to the rising sea level inside the boat where it's not supposed to be, our saviour was flares, a portable 27Mhz radio and a mobile. We were able to raise the alarm by the radio and get the final location by flare (it was at night and bloody scary!!). The mobile was used once the 27Mhz batteries had given out.

I now own a multihull that won't sink hopefully!!! No big lumps of lead on the bottom which are the natural enemy of the archimedes laws....

Cheers, and I'm sorry for sounding rude, I'd had a bad day and just thought Why not carry flares just in case????

 

[gunnarsilins]

Yes, we do. Recently....

....a sailing yacht was run down by a freighter and sank within a few minutes here in the Baltic Sea.
The ship did not stop, and during later investigations by the police the ships crew stated they never saw the yacht or noticed the collision!
Anyway, the crew was able to fire a couple of flares before they abandoned the yacht. These was observed by a fishing vessel nearby and all the crew was saved within a short time.
Of course this happened after dark and it´s quite safe to say; without these flares the crew would never survived!

 

[Guest]

er ........ I didn\'t say I didn\'t carry them .....

... I just queried whether we actually needed them.

Personally I think I carry too many.

At this afternoon's "audit" I had:
o Nine red mini-flares.
o Four orange smoke canisters.
o Six red hand-held flares.
o Four red parachute flares.

About 50% of them will be out of date at the end of this month and the remainder by the end of next February and replacement will cost over £100.

So assuming that we do need flares how many and of what type is needed as a MINIMUM for:
o Coastal Cruising.
o Offshore Cruising.

Best regards )

Ian D

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: er ........ I didn\'t say I didn\'t carry them .....

Wot? No white 'steamer scarers'?

 

[Guest]

Re: er ........ I didn\'t say I didn\'t carry them .....

Peasant that I am all I could think when I noted your comment was "Oh my God - another expense!!"

I content myself in other ways.

In August - crossing the Thames estuary on my way home from France a floating football field called "Chrystal" decided that I was too small to bother changing course for.

As I did a 360 to avoid contact the message on Channel 16 went "Chrystal. Chrystal. This is Kindie. When your father can afford the licence I hope he does the right thing by your mother. Out."

There was no reply and it was probably lost on the Bridge Keeper but I felt better.

Best regards )

Ian D

 

[ponapay]

Yes, they are needed. BUT and it has not had enough publicity you may need many more than you might think.

I know a Belgian guy who lost his mast in the N Sea about 65 miles SE of Shetland and did not have a standby (energency) aerial; at least 4 oil support ships passed within 4 miles of him and despite firing off his flares he was not seen.

Eventually he made it back to harbour himself after freeing the shrouds from his prop; by slowly alternating (by hand) from ahead to astern he eventually oersuaed the shrouds to drop off. All this was in F7-9 but reasonable visibility. 2 of the ships passed during the night when one woul have thought that the contrast of a flare could not be missed.

Keep them, red white and any other colour you can think that might help.

Ian