Old AWB's to new AWB's

S

Sailfree

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 Jan 2003
Messages
21,672
Location
Nazare Portugal
Visit site
We have all seen the various posts regarding MAB's v AWB's but the AWB's are surviving and are obviously not falling apart in spite of the glee with which some repeatedly refer to the one example of the Bavaria Match where the keel connection was inadequate.

Last weekend I saw the 1st new boat that I bought in 1998 a Dufour 36 classic that is still with Hamble School of Yachting. I could not help but go and have a good look at it and was surprised how good it looked. The Instructor and crew all remarked it was a good boat and in OK condition.

Now when I used to return it after a weekend it often went out from the Hamble to Belgium on a YM prep & milebuilder week in all sorts of conditions so it has had a thorough working life in the last 11 yrs but I expect its been maintained as necessary. I notice the Sunsail Jeanneau's out each weekend in the Solent and am sure they have a very hard life.

Now boatbuilding has moved on and many boats have inner moulding for strength and injection moulded deck assemblies, their bows are more vertical and their cleats are smaller but are they being designed down to the necessary strength and will they still last as long.

Certainly cars are much lighter now and last far longer than old cars due to better design - Looking at the new Dufour 40 moored adjacent to my boat I wonder will it last as long as the older more heavily built models?
 
Judging by what I see on ebay, the boat will last until its price falls to the point where it is cheap enough to be bought by someone who cannot afford to rejuvenate it. It then sits in the back corner of the boatyard or garden until it is fit only for scrap.
 
Sailfree said:
Certainly cars are much lighter now and last far longer than old cars due to better design - Looking at the new Dufour 40 moored adjacent to my boat I wonder will it last as long as the older more heavily built models?
Click to expand...

Not so. The big problem with modern cars is their excess weight! A current model Polo is the same size as a 30 year old Golf but heavier! It is a myth that old cars were better designed and built. Who would tolerate such things as 105E Anglias that had struts and rear spring hangers fail and detach after less than 5 years! And engines that could just about make 50K miles before a rebuild. My 5 year old CMax at nearly 50k miles has just had its first change of pads, second set of front tyres and first set of rears. Drives like a new car and the only non-service items changed cost less than £90! New(er) boats are closer to this model of reliability and durability.

There is little connection between weight and long life. Only between good design and materials (plus care) and long life.
 
I have had to ask before, and got told AWB is an Average White Boat

Now, what is an MAB?

And, why don't you lot bother to type what you mean rather than resort to potentially ambiguous acronyms. MAB used to be a silly girly phrase for Mad About Boys!

Mike :-(
 
I seem to remember reading the original review of the Dufour 36 Classic, there was a snigger in the tone of the journalist when he questioned the use of the term 'classic' in the name.

11 years on you are now comparing the 36 to the latest offerings from Dufour with the similar question, "will the new one last as long?" Well I suspect it may well do so. As with the build of your 1998 Dufour Classic, technology and materials continues to move on.
 
galadriel said:
I seem to remember reading the original review of the Dufour 36 Classic, there was a snigger in the tone of the journalist when he questioned the use of the term 'classic' in the name.
Click to expand...

Yes, I sniggered myself. Don't seem like over ten years ago though.

Mind you I cannot find the enthusiasm to celebrate a boat lasting a whole 12 years. I have jars of pickle older than that onboard my old ripper.
 
doug748 said:
Yes, I sniggered myself. Don't seem like over ten years ago though.

Mind you I cannot find the enthusiasm to celebrate a boat lasting a whole 12 years. I have jars of pickle older than that onboard my old ripper.
Click to expand...

I detect a continuing tone of slight arrogance.

I was surprised by the condition of the boat it could have been taken for a 3yr old boat and your pickles would not have travelled over 50 to 60,000Nmls or its mechanical components done over 7-8000hrs!

Of course being a Volvo the engine may have been replaced 3 times!!

Heard of another boat last weekend where the Volvo engine's gone kaput just after 18months and 420hrs - at least mine managed 481hrs.
 
Arrogance? Not a bit of it, the first few years of boat ownership knocks that out of you.
On the theme of Volvo engines. I was alongside a skipper in Jersey, a few years ago, who was contemplating the prospect of a second new Volvo in 5 years, on his Moody deck saloon...
 
Just some random thoughts concerning three rather different boats.

The first is a traditional long keel heavy displacement 40' cruising yacht I met here last winter. She is probably about 15 years old, but could be younger (looks much older). Lots of wood work on deck, lots of kit on board, not very ergonomic layout (ok for 2, any more for long periods would feel like a squash), heavy to handle and very demanding in just about every way imaginable..... her owners B-log is basically an account of boat maintenance (they never have time to do anything else!) interspersed with the odd passage to another port - to do more maintenance. They have been hauled out in Trinidad for the past 5 months doing a major re-fit (again).

The second is our boat - also long keel, not too heavy displacement, almost zilch wood work on deck (just the hand rails) but lots of painted woodwork (and some varnished) down below. She is 18 years old now, fibreglass hull is still in good nick despite the best efforts of jet skis and other craft to bash it occasionally.
But what started out as minor re-fit / maintenance is developing into a saga of stripping the boat out back to basics and overhauling / renewing / fixing just about everything. Oh, and getting a new engine as well, when I can afford it, as the old one blew up.....
I still have a long way to go though including sanding / grinding / painting / varnishing everywhere down below, re-doing the electrics, etc etc.....

And the third is a stereotypical 40' Jeanneau AWB - 10 years old now, spent the first nine years of her life working hard in the bareboat charter trade in the BVIs before being bought by a pal of mine for use as a live-aboard last year. She has a Yanmar 4JH diesel with about 6,000 hours on the clock now - runs like a dream, has never needed any major work doing to it.
No varnished timber on deck anywhere. Ok, the caulking on the teak strips of the swim platform needs some attention cosmetically.
VERY ergonomic layout with lots of room, three double cabins, two heads, nice galley, large comfortable cockpit with huge bimini (the saloon is never used...), twin wheels - and she sails like a dream, easily handled by two people (three of us sailed her down here with no autopilot, and she would happily sail herself for hours with helm lashed on a close reach)

The folk in the first boat described above have spent most of the past year working on and fixing their craft while voyaging from Europe to the Caribbean.
My friend with the 40' Jeanneau has spent most oof the past year sailing and drinking rum while at anchor, while doing some basic cleaning occasionally.
I would like to think that our boat is somewhere in between....... :)

My conclusion - My pal with the 40' Jeanneau AWB is the one who has got life sussed out the best! And I am sure that given just basic maintenance, her boat will still be looking as good after another 10 years of sailing, drinking rum and enjoying life.
And hopefully the engine will still be going strong as well then (especially now that she has solar panels for battery charging, hence can cut down on the 600 hrs / year average use).
And my friends with the heavy displacement 40' yacht? I think they will probably end up using her as a houseboat in the Caribbean for a few years before selling her for a song. They were most emphatic that they did not want to do another ocean passage in her, as the boat was just so demanding.
Somehow I have a feeling that they would have been happier in the long run with an AWB.....
 
Last edited:
Bajansailor

Great to have a contribution from those actually doing it rather than armchair critics.

Very informative but would you be as confident of a brand new AWB as your friends well used one?
 
Sailfree said:
Very informative but would you be as confident of a brand new AWB as your friends well used one?
Click to expand...

I think I would have to say absolutely! As an example, consider Horatio Hornblower (of this Forum) who recently sold his Jeanneau SO 42 which was only a couple of years old. They also had a lot of relatively hassle free and enjoyable cruising with their boat, and I am sure that the brand new boats today can only benefit from improvements in design and materials technology as they happen.
I am not toooo sure about the new style interiors that look like ultra modern apartments, but I am sure they will grow on me - again, not a speck of varnish in sight, even down below, to worry about...... :)
 
Banjan Sailor

You make a good case for the cause of buying a new AWB much of which I agree with, particularly the benefits that result from product reliability as boat mass manufacturing matures.

But that is not the only issue because as the market grows in response to increased leisure time and lower prices (in real terms), so the market becomes driven by issues that do not suit many of us.

We are seeing the ascendency of the fast-ultra-llightweight-marina-party-caravan-charter boat with a large cockpit, huge beam carried aft to provide roomy accommodation. We are also seeing harbour appeal rather than other considerations seriously drive sales volume for the first time as inexperienced buyers enter the market in volume.

Perfect for purpose - sailing between marinas in light weather. Fast and manoeuvrable they do what they are designed to do. Large engines ensure you are back before the its dark -even against the tide. Just the job for a quick weekend or a 2 week charter.

In truth they can handle a blow too, despite popular prejudice to the contrary, but in my experience the flat sections forward cause horrendous slamming upwind in heavy weather and downwind the broad section aft means that the risk of a broach is ever present. A combination which makes the whole experience thoroughly unpleasant.

Their light displacement and high volume makes them unbelievably lively and tiring to sail; sea kindliness just isn't a feature. Helming is a nightmare too, with little directional stability. A turn on the helm becomes like some demented computer game to the extent that I lost all interest and used the autopilot whenever possible.

Large cockpits so great for the BBQ and sundowners alongside in the marina become a problem at sea too, as do large saloons with few handholds when the weather gets lively.

So am I against these new AWBs? Absolutely not, they do what they are designed to do very well. That is why they sell so well.

Do I want one? No thanks.

Give me something a bit calmer and more solid - not a lightweight bucking bronco.

Give me something that can hold its sail without a ridiculous weather helm in a blow.

Give me a boat that derives its stability at least as much from its ballast as from its hull form.

Let me be deluded and feel secure in the belief that my hopelessly over engineered chain plates and 10mm rigging give me some measure of safety when I need it. Let me be secure in the knowledge that my boat was built before the designer had became a cost accountant.

And when I go to sleep at anchor let me be rocked gently not skitter all round the bay like some hyperactive manic insomniac.

Are the modern AWBs fit for purpose? Depends on the pupose I guess.

Thats it from me, I have to be up early and get on with some maintenance....:)
 
I got a chance to sail a Jen SO 42. It's the largest boat I've been one, and I'm a dinghy sailor, but I really didn't take to it. Wheel steering...yuk... but what really annoyed me was the mainsheet. Firstly, it attaches half-way along the boom, not at the end, so you lose a large mechanical advantage. Secondly, it can only be adjusted using a clutch and a shared winch on the coachroof... a good eight feet ahead of the helm. Again, yuk. The boat is shaped like a dinghy and will round up if it carries much sail in a gust. But spilling wind isn't possible.
The entire mainsheet arrangement is set up like this for the one simple reason that a traveller across the cockpit, in line with the end of the boom, would get in the way of the drinks parties.
No, I didn't like it at all. YMMV.
 
Right on Rob.

The mainsheet is a primary sail control. So is the traveller. Putting them out of easy reach, and making them difficult to operate is a compromise too far.

You're probably wrong on the tiller/wheel question, though. A tiller for a boat like that would need to be quite powerful (i.e. a long lever) and would sweep a big area of cockpit, making much of it uninhabitable underway.
 
Interesting to read this - sorry I just popped across from the Mobo Forum as we just sold ours and i'm very tempted to get back to sailing again.

I find myself more tempted by a 10 year old Oyster 45 than some of the AWB that are around - would anyone care to enlighten me ?

Thanks
 
Robwhelton said:
Probably, but it's all relative.
I sometimes sail a 33ft Sgoth Neiseach, which has a huge unbalanced rudder connected to a great lump of wood as the tiller. It's a two hand job, with a footbrace so you can really put your back into it.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1365/1248304800_118037be23_m.jpg
Click to expand...

That sounds like a badly designed boat then, there are several boats larger than this that sail really well with a tiller. The Etap 34s for instance is nearly 35ft, tall rig deep keel often club raced and is nicely balanced.
 
Robwhelton said:
Probably, but it's all relative.
I sometimes sail a 33ft Sgoth Neiseach, which has a huge unbalanced rudder connected to a great lump of wood as the tiller. It's a two hand job, with a footbrace so you can really put your back into it.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1365/1248304800_118037be23_m.jpg
Click to expand...

Keewaydin is a huge 80ft LOD and if I remember right getting on for 90 ton displacement gaff rigged ketch. It is tiller steered. If they can do it you should be able to do it on your puny little boat :p

http://www.keewaydin.co.uk/

PS. I have wheel steering on my gaff rigged pilot cutter :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

W
Downsizing to your boat.
2
Replies
28
Views
726
Wansworth
W
zoidberg
'This month's hot boating topic....'
2 3
Replies
42
Views
1K
tjbrace
tjbrace

Share this page

Top