Ok its official

[jimi]

Disagree. Greatest threat to any socio/economic/legal fabric is for pariahs to operate outwith that framework. Whether Saddam was good or bad is irrelevant to the the argument. He has no weapons of mass destruction ergo he was'nt disobeying UN mandates. The UK/US operated outwith the bounds of international law and are therefor international criminals. Whatever Hutton comes up with and despite efforts to argue about trees rather than forests, the simple fact is that a vote was won in the HoC based on seriously misleading information .. you know that, I know that and so does everyone. However it is clouded and twisted and rabbit holes dived into .. that's the stark honest truth and TB should resign and indictment, the simple fact is that he got carried away by being pally with GWB. Such a man is not fit to lead this country, and I reiterate, the constitutional framework needs adressing to see that the executive has proper constraints imposed upon it.

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[Evadne]

I don't normally bother with these non-boaty threads but you're probably right, DG, although I'm pleased I wasn't such a cynical old fart as to suggest it first. SH was a nasty bugger who was best got rid of, but he is hardly alone in the anals of history (sorry about the spelling). It really is appalling, though, just how naive our american cousins were ("expecting to be welcomed as liberators - give us a break!")

But (and it's a big one,) to paraphrase Gandalf: "there is a lot wrong in the world that you cannot put right, so be careful of doing so when you alone believe you are in the right." More listening and less shooting, that's what I believe in. Lost in the noise, it probably will be, though. (As Yoda would have said.)
Bye then, I'm off to Bembridge for the weekend tomorrow.


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[Observer]

If you want an argument, try this

You spout regurgitated opinion and comment as though it is fact without backing up any of it with considered or rational analysis. You are carried along by your own prejudices as unwittingly as a twig in a mill race. You call for change without: (i) proposing exactly what it is you want changed; (ii) what you want it changed to; (iii) consideration of any consequential effects; (iv) how the change should be accomplished. This is not serious argument or debate - it's demagoguery.

Put aside your pre-conceptions and analyse the facts. If some facts are unavailable or are uncertain, you may be drawn to hypothesise. That is a perfectly valid form of analysis PROVIDED you do not select and twist the facts to support your preferred hypothesis and PROVIDED ALSO you apply sufficient intellectual rigour to: (a) explore alternative hypotheses; and (b) discard those which are not supported by the facts.

If, having considered all the alternatives, you come back to your original hypothesis, at least it will be more worthy of serious consideration than the intellectually incontinent ramblings I've seen so far.

With respect, of course.

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[jimi]

Re: If you want an argument, try this

With due respect, sir ...

1) I have called for TB to resign and then be brought to justice
2) Elected second House
3) Separation of executive/legislature/review
4) Abolition of fiction of monarchy
5) Strengthen & respect for the UN

You state
"You call for change without: (i) proposing exactly what it is you want changed; (ii) what you want it changed to; (iii) consideration of any consequential effects; (iv) how the change should be accomplished. This is not serious argument or debate - it's demagoguery."

This is exactly what has and is happenning in Iraq ... produced by the joint demagoguery of Bush and Blair.

Blair should resign now, with a coalition cabinet governing until a General Election is called.

Precisely which facts are you unclear about?
Presence of weapons of mass destruction?
UN?
Misleading .. assertions of presence of WMD despite contrary evidence from UN weapons inspectorate?
Spin?





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[billmacfarlane]

GB ? nm

nm

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[sailorman]

i propose Mr Boosh & Tone for the "Nobel Peace Prize".
the only problem they invaded a "Soverign State".
perhaps Mr Cambell could sort this out.

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[AndrewB]

Nice one, Jimi (nm)

nm

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[StugeronSteve]

Re: Ye blithering idiot..

Can you not see that the swift and noble actions of TB and GW have:

a) Rid the world of all evil.
b) Finally torn down the differences and injustices which have long fuelled the campaigns of terror.
c) Brought Iraq to a new golden dawn, free from oppression and fear.
d) Saved the UN a small fortune by not having to waste time looking for weapons that don't exist.
e) Countless other benefits, that cannot be disclosed due to the modesty of our great leaders.



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[peterb]

Re: Accountability

I always thought that an hereditary upper house had just one advantage: the government could put in its friends, but there was no guarantee that their children would still follow the government line. That way you got a degree of independence, and the government couldn't turn out those who didn't agree with it. Now, it seems, we're heading for an upper house that will be packed with cronies.

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[andy_wilson]

What we do now is...

...go sailing of course, only a couple of decent months left this season.

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[Badger]

Next President USA and PM UK

I'm sure Arnold Schwaznegger and Charles Kennedy will figure out what to do..... be afraid, be very afraid.

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[Guest]

I've had a word with Tony, I've told him he's welcome here any time. The games have been a "spiffing good jape" as you english say. The civil uprisnig and general mayhem that has taken over the country of late is just a little blip in my mates Saddams plan. All is under control and things will return to normal once you team goes home.
Anyhow, keep in touch and give my best to George dubya and well see you soon.

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[Guest]

Al,

Shush!

Sid.

PS George, Tone, THEY'RE BEHIND YOU!!!

 

[Guest]

What are you doing here, you're supposed to be hiding. They've not found you yet so we're still winning. Their team is really very rubbish at this game. Up the stakes again and move the weapons! Oh shouldn't have said that, but the infidels are so stupid they'll never find them.

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[Guest]

I know, but they will never think of looking for them in Warsash!

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[Guest]

Bugger!

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[CharlesK]

Re: Next President USA and PM UK

Actually I will be very happy if I just get to be President.. oops sorry.. Prime Minister of the Highlands.. ooops sorry the UK.. as for WMD and Iraq, I think that Iraq is a figment of Blair and Bushe's dillusional imaginations

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[MainlySteam]

While I have no doubt that Iraq had a dangerous dictator, perhaps what is coming clear now is that some nations have dangerous societies that need a dangerous dictator to keep them in check.

In Iraq's case I don't know what was worse, the dangerous dictator, or the dangerous society that now seems to have been let loose.

John

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[StanleyBinLid]

Re: Shhhhhhhhhhhh they\'re behind you

I have to hand it to you guys you're doing an excellent job keeping "them" off my trail.. many thanks, do let me know when I can be of assistance

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[Bejasus]

Hmmmmm........

I can see more than 7 minutes rearing it's ugly head for this one......./forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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