OCS - were we really?

[MissFitz]

Second race of the Hamble Winter Series yesterday, I called the start from the bow & we were called OCS. This is worrying me as I could have sworn that we weren't over the line (& I had a pretty clear view either way). It seems very unlikely, given our relative levels of experience, that I'm right & the race committee are wrong - but is there any possibility that could be the case? And if not, what do I do about the fact that I am apparently unable to judge where the line is?!

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Which fleet were you in?

 

[MissFitz]

IRC3

(btw just to reiterate, in case a member of the race committee is on here, I'm 99.99999% sure it was me that was wrong. I'm still fairly new to doing bow & it's a learning curve. What I need to learn, though, is how to make sure I don't call it wrong next time!)

 

[Woodlouse]

The committee boat, being able to look down the length of the line shouldn't make a mistake on this sort of thing, but it does happen. However it can be very hard to gauge the distance from the line from the bow.

How are you working out your distance from the line? Are you looking left and right at either end of the line as you approach? If so in future, try during the prestart to get a good look down the length of the line and try to find a transit on the land that lines up with one end, then during the start you just need to look one way and when your points line up you should be there.

Chances are you were OCS, but don't take it to heart, learn from it. Also find out what the back of the boat was up to, you're not the only one on board who's job it is to make the start run smoothly.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

If there were a committee member on here he might say that there's a conversation on the cttee boats that starts at about a minute before the start during which the leading boats are identified by number as soon as they are heading for the line. Comments are made regarding whether they look like they'll be early, then that they're turning down a bit etc.. a running commentary on the start, but limited to who looks to be likely to be close to getting it wrong. That's taped in case it's needed for evidence. Most of the time it ends with a compliment on a good start, but as you've seen, sometimes not.

There were many pairs of eyes looking both ways from the start boat and the pin boat, and the member would also say that it was really obvious who was over. Identification of the boats was very clear too (all were clear ahead enough). And that yesterday there weren't any 'grey areas' - very few boats made starts within a couple of seconds from the gun.

Judging the line is so much easier from the ends, and speaking for myself as one who has done a few cttee boat duties, it is truly enlightening to watch a start and first leg and see how even the best make major mistakes. Everyone should do it at least once.

 

[flaming]

It's less a question of the relative experience of you and the committee and more to do with the point of view. The PRO calling the line has a view right down it, and so it's very easy to see who's over, unless they start blanketing each other, which is when the general recall comes out.
You however cannot see both ends of the line at once, are being bounced around and having to make a judgement call.

The standard advice is to get a transit on the line. Line up something on the shore with the line, so that you only need one end of the line, and your transit object, to be able to call it. And that's great, except that assumes that the line is not moving.
In reality, especially on a windy day, the line IS moving. The committee boat is swinging on its anchor, and bobbing up and down in the waves, and so's the pin.

I think in those conditions you have to accept that the bow is unlikely to have a nailed on view of where the line is, and then it comes down to a skippers judgement at to the risk they are willing to take, and communicate that to the bow. If the series is getting to the point where it's imperative not to have an OCS, and especially with long races, then I will sometimes say to the bow "I'm not interested in the last boatlength today. I want you to call me definitely safe."
Other times however I'm willing to accept that we won't actually be 100% certain that we're clear until X-ray stays down...

I wasn't out this week, but last week one start was definitely in that category. Hit the line best as we could judge, and then happy to see X-ray stay down.

I'd also say that if what I've seen of your starts is anything to go by, that boat is going to pick up more than it's fair share of superb starts, and the risk of that is a few OCS. Don't be afraid to say to the skipper that you don't have the best take on where the line is if it's bouncy, and leave him/her to make the call of how hard to push the start.

 

[MissFitz]

There were many pairs of eyes looking both ways from the start boat and the pin boat, and the member would also say that it was really obvious who was over. Identification of the boats was very clear too (all were clear ahead enough). And that yesterday there weren't any 'grey areas' - very few boats made starts within a couple of seconds from the gun.

Well I think I've got a definitive answer to at least one part of my question - thank you, very much appreciated!

I guess two lessons so far - a) it's more difficult to judge the line from the middle than I realised, & b) following on from that, discretion is the better part of valour (particularly if, as in the HWS, there aren't usually many options for taking a transit). Will be more cautious in two weeks' time. Again, many thanks to anoccasionalyachtsman for a hugely helpful insight into the starting procedure.

 

[MissFitz]

I'd also say that if what I've seen of your starts is anything to go by, that boat is going to pick up more than it's fair share of superb starts, and the risk of that is a few OCS. Don't be afraid to say to the skipper that you don't have the best take on where the line is if it's bouncy, and leave him/her to make the call of how hard to push the start.

Also excellent advice, thanks. In this case the skipper had it right & I called him up, so am feeling particularly remorseful. Will definitely check in future how hard he wants me to push it - probably less so, given this week's performance....... Didn't do us too much harm in that we scored another first, thanks to some superb helming & tactics - but if it hadn't been for that OCS we might not have had to share it, damn it!

 

[drakes drum]

I've done a bit of race officer work but not at "big race series" level. In my experience the overloaded race officer, like as not with someone else talking to him at the time, is just as capable of cocking up as you are. I've even managed to get two close boats in the wrong finishing order. But if the fleet want someone to sit and freeze on a club line or in the OD boat, then they might just have to put up with the occasional mistake.

 

[lw395]

I've done a bit of race officer work but not at "big race series" level. In my experience the overloaded race officer, like as not with someone else talking to him at the time, is just as capable of cocking up as you are. I've even managed to get two close boats in the wrong finishing order. But if the fleet want someone to sit and freeze on a club line or in the OD boat, then they might just have to put up with the occasional mistake.

I think the Hamble boys are pretty good.
Mistakes are always possible, but having worked with some pretty good RO's who have run fairly high profile series, and done my share of misjudging from the helm, I have to say the odds are stacked for the RO to be right.
Very often if there is the slightest doubt, they'll let it go.
I would guess two observers agreed the OP was over.

Several races this year I've been over or thought I was over, and gone back, picking up useful points. Easier to do when you don't have a big team being disappointed as you peel out of a perfect start.

 

[drakes drum]

there is now a new garmin handheld on sale which allows you to pin both ends of the line and tells you the distance to the line etc. that has to be the answer

 

[awol]

Various apps and devices have that function. We tried one and found the first problem was pinning the ends - with an 80 boat fleet, 6 starts and the pin laid late, actually getting the button pushes on the marks was difficult whereas noting a transit was easy. But then I've never had the luxury of a dedicated tactician.

 

[TallBuoy]

there is now a new garmin handheld on sale which allows you to pin both ends of the line and tells you the distance to the line etc. that has to be the answer

Ive got that on my Garmin watch, and even an app on my phone- iRegatta. however, both can be a 'bit of a fiddle' in the minutes leading up to a busy start line.

 

[flaming]

Ive got that on my Garmin watch, and even an app on my phone- iRegatta. however, both can be a 'bit of a fiddle' in the minutes leading up to a busy start line.

It's a feature on the deckman software we've been running for about 7 years. Used to use it a bit, but found that to get the most out of it you need to practice with it a lot, and at the level we were racing I was getting good starts frequently enough without it so we don't really use it any more.

 

[lw395]

You need to have a lot of faith in the accuracy of a gps to use it seriously for starting.
To get the postion of the pin within a boat length is quite a big ask.
Then there is the accuracy of your current position. Any one fix could easily be a boatlength out.
Whereas the race officer's eye only needs to see two feet of bow over the line (and recognise it as the bow with the young lady on it....)
Where GPS can really help though is in judging time to reach the line.
A great training aid, set up a pretend line start and practise the last 90 seconds a few times.

 

[Woodlouse]

The current B&G H5000's also enable you to ping the start line, it then maps it all out for you showing the bias, the advantage the wind and the tide. Any other racing software will do the same but the ease of the H5000 is a dream.

 

[st599]

I've been out on the HWS committee boats - quite eye-opening. They will have at least 2 people on the axis of the line at different heights plus if they have one, a RIB beyond the pin and there'll be a running commentary then at the gun a shout like "Two Four" from the main person sighting the line - 4 OCS can only identify 2.

PS Start counting seconds when you here the gun - if you get to 5 you're clear, even if they do try a recall after that point.