Novice - Totally Without a Clue!!

[danlindley]

Well, i suppose you've all been here before, a bit like learner driver syndrome?
Well anyhow, my problem is i haven't got a clue.

Myself and my girlfriend are looking at buying a boat in couple of years when we have saved enough for at least a deposit, then we want to jet off around the world on the thing. So far i have read PBO and found it quite useful, and looked at the classifieds at the different types of boats that are available.

We obviously would like a liveaboard, but other than that we don't know what type of boat we'd like, only that it should have an engine and preferrably not sails (looks like too much like hard work). We know about the many different Sea School courses on offer, but its all the other stuff. Whats really involved in buying a boat? financing it? keeping it in water? taking it around the world? What insurance? etc etc etc.

Please if anyone has any experices, or practical advice on types of boat, legislation etc. Feel free to get in touch. danlindley@02.co.uk

Thank's

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[Metabarca]

What was that formula someone posted once? 'Expect to pay 20% of what the boat costs you to buy every year in costs: mooring, routine maintenance, fuel, etc.' I think that's right. Jetting off around the world in a mobo? That must cost a LOT in fuel!

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[TwoStroke]

Try posting this on Motorboat Chat.

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[tony_brighton]

Dont write off the rag'n'stick model - a sailboat will keep sailing long after a motorboat would rather be in the marina. Have a look at a sailing experience weekend on both types of boat - might give you a better flavour of what you want and you might find SAILing is fun and not too difficult. A large part of the challenge for that type of sailing is common to both - how to run a boat, provisioning, maintenance, communications, weather, budgetting etc.

Its worth reiterating the point about motoring around the world - there are very few motor boats with the range to cross the Atlantic - and it would take a number of hours at the fuel berth to fill it up so you would need a very large budget indeed! (Perhaps the Mobo channel can help here). For comparison, one weekend parked alongside a Nelson in Cherbourg - I had spent about £1 in fuel having sailed over but the Nelson had spent £75 one way. Multiply that up for a round the world trip and its really big bucks.

What sort of budget are you thinking you will have to spend?

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[danlindley]

Thanks so far for the advice. Just thought i'd clarify something, the intention is to travel to different countries around the world, and not to do an around the world trip. Sorry for confusion. We are intending to go to several different countries, stay in each for a few weeks then move on. I'd consider doing the SAILing, is it possible with just the two people? Can you have both the sails and the engine? We were looking at a budget of around 40k for the boat, obviously second hand and we think this could be enough to get an OK one to set off in or to work on and "do-up". we were then going to have some back-burner cash on top to keep us going for a while and work our way around the different countries.

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[tcm]

Hi

I have a mobo and do some sailing too , renting (aka "chartering") . If your aim is to cover long distances (like 100 miles) cheaply, or very long distances (1,000 miles) in one shot, then you need a sailing boat.

Cos even on a very large powered boat, you can't skim along at 25+ knots for further than 500 miles. And there's the cost of fuel too - with fuel costing 2+ quid a gallon in the med, and a small (not liveaboardable) powerboat drinking 12gallons per hour...but a larger one gobbling over 60 galls per hour, those 500 miles which take 20 hours at 25 knots start costing erm er £500 quid for the cheap one or erm £2,400 for the more spensivee, or somewhere in between.

Longer range needs monster monster tanks (cos the 1200 galls weighs several tons) so is not possible at high speeds for leisure boats. This issue of range, coupled with the cost of doing miles is the main non-subjective difference between sail and power (subjectively, many prefer one or the other). An average power boat might do 100 hours per year, and at average of say 20 knots overall they are not really going very far - 2000miles tops , very low distance compared with annual mileage for a car, for example.

First off, decide the budget and what you want to do . The money and the boat will go further if you sail. Some total dummies sail boats, it is pretty easy, much easier than driving a car, tho many like to think it is by pure skill that they get blown along, whereas in fact if you get a large skip-shaped hull and let go of the land near portugal, even without proper sails, you will "discover" america in a couple of months or so - it's just that Columbus did it first.

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[tome]

Sailing is possible and enjoyable with 2 people, and don't imagine it's as complex as it looks! Many novices who come sailing with us are delighted to learn this. A great starting point is a dinghy sailing course. If you can sail a dinghy, you won't have much trouble learning to sail a keel boat.

My wife and I regularly sail her across the channel. On some occasions it's flat calm and we motor at a little less than sailing speed. We have enough fuel for around 60 hours or about 400 miles. That would get us to Spain on one hop if necessary.

However, it's a wonderful feeling when you raise the sails in a breeze and the noise of the engine stops!

Good luck and welcome to the forum

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[danlindley]

thanks for your info, if thats the case it does sound preferrable to go with a boat that can sail, rather than just engine. My friend has a dingy, are they so alike? i maybe should ask him to take me out on it, it is only a single-hander, but would this give me enough insight into sailing coastal?

I spoke to the RYA they said you need an ICC to be able to go coastal, but apart from that that was all they said, is there any other things that is needed?

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[tcm]

Re: Dinghies

i am not convinced that dinghy sailing is utterly necessary at all. Bit like learning roadcraft on a bicycle, then driving a lorry.

Sure, you learn the wind directions and so on, but there is a lot of balncing and fast moving about required on a dinghy, and a lot of getting wet. So imho, it is not needed, Put another way, lots of ocean sailing types can't just jump on a dinghy and sail it in a manner that uses their crusier skills very much. And in the cold wet solent, dinghy sailing could easily put you off all boats. Just a thought.

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[danlindley]

Re: Dinghies

Thanks, I have seen a few guys in dingys at the local waterpark, and i've seen them get wet, although i haven't been totally without the getting wet myself. I usuall go out on the water in a kyack, and i ain't going to get far on one of those even if i have arms like Arnold Schwartznegger! Anyhow, is sailing off to other countries reletively easy to do? aside the costs? do you need to be highly experienced, or can you do it with a boat and a few years practice?

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[tcm]

Re: sailing about

No, you don't need years and years and years of experience. You can sail off with just a few seasons experience. in fact, lots of people get away with less, but better to have seen some different weather conditions, do a few courses etc and know your boat too, how to fix things an so on before going.

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[tony_brighton]

do you ever feel schizo or indecisive?

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[tome]

Re: Dinghies

Take your point that it's not strictly necessary, but dinghy sailors tend to be more intuitive IMHO. My wife has Day Skipper and a couple of thousand miles sailing but still struggles with sail trim so she's doing a dinghy course next year - maybe that's a better way round.

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[tony_brighton]

In the SAILing world, £40k would get you a respectable sized, reasonable condition 2nd hand yacht. Check out the magazines (PBO, YM) and look at the boats for sail sections.
If planning a long trip and liveaboard, be prepared to spend some cash on equipment - so plan to spend 35-37k on the boat and a couple of k on preparation.

You would reasonably expect to get a 34-35 footer for that price which would give you the space and comfort for a couple of people to travel without getting a monster of a yacht beyond your experience. 2 people can sail a 34 foot yacht very easily if its a cruising boat not a race boat.

You really need to get out on the water and get some experience to figure out what works for you. I'd really recommend a sea school to start with and then maybe the crewing agencies. Most sea schools will do an experience weekend which would give you all weekend on a boat for a reasonable fee under a qualified instructor. expect to have a full boat!

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[tcm]

yeah, sometimes - but why do you ask!?

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[chippie]

Handling a sailing or motor boat in close quarters takes a bit of getting used to , but once out of range of objects to hit it is easy to practice and get a feel for things . If you didnt want to go the dinghy route a skippered charter or three could give you some hands on experience until you had confidence to charter on your own account.

Good luck and have fun.

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[Sybarite]

Re: Dinghies

A) Learn to sail first. I recommend the dinghy experience - it teaches you to react quickly to situations.
B) Charter various boats first. You will then live the experience and probably (like me) change your preconceptions.
C). Get your boat and use it for a few seasons before heading off. You can go more quickly but I think when you hit your first gale at sea you would want to have more miles under your belt.
D) Get the biggest (sound) boat you can afford and handle for ocean crossings. The bigger the boat the smaller the waves appear. My preferred range would be 38 - 42'
E) A light crew just requires more planning in advance. Ellen MacArthur singlehanded her 60' around the world.

Good luck and enjoy it.

John

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[BrendanS]

Re: Dinghies

>>E) A light crew just requires more planning in advance. Ellen MacArthur singlehanded her 60' around the world.<<

The biggest difference for most single handlers is whether you are out at sea for months at end, or need to anchor or moor on a frequent basis....big difference

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[William_H]

Hello Dan from your questions there is clearly a very important question for you to find an answer to. Will you love sailing. It is totally wrong to see it as a cheap or convenient way to see the world. Try car tent jet youth hostels etc.
Saing and especially long distance cruising is a passion in itself. So many people buy or build boats only to find that they don't have that passion. All the people who have given you advice have that passion and probably can't imagine anyone who could hate sailing. Trust me most people have had enough after a few hours especially if it's not pleasant.
When I was young I had this dream plan to sail araound the world or at least to far away places. I loved sailing but found the more I saw of the ocean the more I appreciated my own bed. Now I love sailing for 4 hours but love to get off and leave it for a few days. Having said that you and your lady may find you love it, the only way is to try it with a sailing school or charter. Dinghys are much harder to sail than a keel boat so try something in the 20 foot size first and find out what you really want.
As for the boat being seaworthy thats not nearly as important as having a seaworthy skipper and crew. A guy turned up in Darwin from Russia alone in a 12 fot or thereabouts keel boat having sailed halfway round the world. I am not suggesting that is a viable boat but many people have travelled across oceans in production 24 to 27 footers. Your own experience is the critical factor not so much skill in handling the boat as the mental toughness and love of the sea.

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[William_H]

Hello Dan from your questions there is clearly a very important question for you to find an answer to. Will you love sailing. It is totally wrong to see it as a cheap or convenient way to see the world. Try car tent jet youth hostels etc.
Sailng and especially long distance cruising is a passion in itself. So many people buy or build boats only to find that they don't have that passion. All the people who have given you advice have that passion and probably can't imagine anyone who could hate sailing. Trust me most people have had enough after a few hours especially if it's not pleasant.
When I was young I had this dream plan to sail araound the world or at least to far away places. I loved sailing but found the more I saw of the ocean the more I appreciated my own bed. Now I love sailing for 4 hours but love to get off and leave it for a few days. Having said that you and your lady may find you love it, the only way is to try it with a sailing school or charter. Dinghys are much harder to sail than a keel boat so try something in the 20 foot size first and find out what you really want.
As for the boat being seaworthy thats not nearly as important as having a seaworthy skipper and crew. A guy turned up in Darwin from Russia alone in a 12 fot or thereabouts keel boat having sailed halfway round the world. I am not suggesting that is a viable boat but many people have travelled across oceans in production 24 to 27 footers. Your own experience is the critical factor not so much skill in handling the boat as the mental toughness and love of the sea.

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