November YM and PBO almost identical.
- Thread starter fmoran
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David_Jersey
Well-Known Member
Maybe by one of the mail order marine companies?
Could outsource the forum set up & management to proffesionals and wrap a "how to" website around the forum / their existing website........as already said, 90% of the magazine articles are really only repeats - on a website only need to do the articles once, with a bit of updating now and again. Ongoing content user generated, only need a (very) part time Editor.........the fundamental difference with IPC is that someone actually selling goods is ideally placed to directly reap the benefits of product exposure they can make money off, not just from showing online ads (or only Google public service ads
), and if done tastefully (with thought ) no need to go US style "Infomercial".............and that's without 3rd party advertising or actual link ups with different service providers.........or premium content.Kinda surprised no one on the more Hands on computer mumbojumbo side of things has not approached anyone on a revenue sharing basis. or have they?..............and the idea don't work
snooks
Well-Known Member
IP were the only company to have suitable yacht available for us to test before the boat show. Everyone else launched their boats at SIBS, and due to the deadlines of print and show, there were no other boats around....YM could have tested the Rustler, but knowing PBO had already tested it YM chose something new.
samwise
Well-Known Member
World class
As I have said so often before, just buy Yachting World. Very different content from its stable sisters, well written, great pictures ( no offence Snooks) maybe too aspirational (nothing about refurbishing a Folkboat) and a lot of racing. But I regard it as a real treat. It would be interesting to see how the circulations of the different titles compare.
As I have said so often before, just buy Yachting World. Very different content from its stable sisters, well written, great pictures ( no offence Snooks) maybe too aspirational (nothing about refurbishing a Folkboat) and a lot of racing. But I regard it as a real treat. It would be interesting to see how the circulations of the different titles compare.
wotayottie
Well-Known Member
Not the best example since thats exactly what the car makers do do these days - and not just within the same groups either.
However, I've raised this point with both Andrew Simpson and the marketing manager of YM and both assured me that there wasnt any collaboration between PBO and YM. I'm happy to accept what they say but maybe there should be some collaboration to ensure that there wasnt any accidental duplication. They would sell more mags that way.
EuanMcKenzie
Well-Known Member
re IP only boat available
If there is only one boat available in the market for review that month then just don't bother.
Think outside the box and do an article on something else instead.
If you get too deeply into the rut of having to do things to a fixed structure in a certain way etc you end up with what we have got.
Then you get boring magazines and comments like those above.
I'm with the others on this one. The southhamptom boat show review, oh great!, How to lay up your boat, that's new!, and a-z of some easy to find but not all boats, thats easy to pull from the archives.
I can also see that its hard to be original. You need to try harder though as you are losing teh readership
Maybe you should all go and sit in a dark room and think about life for while before doing the next issue.
If there is only one boat available in the market for review that month then just don't bother.
Think outside the box and do an article on something else instead.
If you get too deeply into the rut of having to do things to a fixed structure in a certain way etc you end up with what we have got.
Then you get boring magazines and comments like those above.
I'm with the others on this one. The southhamptom boat show review, oh great!, How to lay up your boat, that's new!, and a-z of some easy to find but not all boats, thats easy to pull from the archives.
I can also see that its hard to be original. You need to try harder though as you are losing teh readership
Maybe you should all go and sit in a dark room and think about life for while before doing the next issue.
bedouin
Well-Known Member
These forums should now be capable of being self-financing. It doesn't cost much just to run a forum (I know this site does a lot more).
Internet advertising now outstrips TV advertising in terms of spend, and these forums have a very desirable reader profile and an impressive page impression rate (probably around 10million/month). If IPC can't make money out of that then they don't deserve to be in business!
Juggler7823
Well-Known Member
This thread more me more glad than ever that I stopped PBO from the Sept issue.
snooks
Well-Known Member
The point is we didn't know it was going to be in other sailing magazines...The Estero hadn't been tested anywhere previously, so we took the test.
I think it would be a slippery slope if we decided not to test boats because we thought that another magazine has tested it. Just because a boat has been tested, it doesn't mean it will be in the next issue (or even appear at all)
We've recently reviewed how we test the boats to make ours the best tests on the market.
When we do the boat tests I'll do 360º images, a gallery of extra images and a video....Something that no other sailing magazine does.
We do our 100 point boat test, and when possible we'll also do a 24 hour boat test, spending at least 24 hours testing the boat. Sailing, anchoring, eating, drinking, relaxing, showering, and shi...reading on board
If a boats performance is sluggish, we'll say so.
We know, for example, that when another magazine tested one of the boats we tested last week, they had light winds....We had 28 knots!
What we write about the boats performance is going to be completely different than the other magazine found. It's not as if we're testing the same car on the same test track.Look on the bright side if you're after an IP you've got 3 reviews to read from 3 different writers and 3 sets of conditions...the downside is that if, like me, you're not looking for a long keeled cruiser, then those 6 pages are non essential reading.
The same can be said for the laying up...I'm staying in this winter so it's of no interest to me. I was at the boat show so I know what was there, but there were plenty of people who aren't staying in over winter and weren't at the boat show.
YM try to cover as much as possible so there will be features in the magazine that will hopefully interest everyone, such as getting back to a MOB, or an anchor test with visible results, or even just revisiting familiar cruising grounds.
30boat
N/A
Testing new boats is all very well but in PBO I expect practical advice and projects.I haven't seen anything worth reading lately so I didn't renew my subscription.I own a 28 year old boat that needs maintenance and benefits from improvements like new boats don't and PBO used to be perfect for that.It seems it lost it's focus and started following YM.Maybe there's no market for DIY ideas anymore but I doubt it.I would be the first to submit contributions if the PBO went back to it's roots.
Quandary
Well-Known Member
Boat reviews, how accurate are they?
Snooks
Your assertion that YM boat reviews are candid is contested.
YM have started giving scores out of 10 but you can't get less than 7. The galley on the French J In October is a good example. It has unfinished ply edges, locker doors that open downwards, finishing up over the burners, no worktops and this galley gets 70% in a 'cruising' mag. It is a weekending/ racing galley in a lightweight flyer but useless for cruising, about 4 out of 10 would be fairer. The chart table has a big cut off in the corner and no space for instruments but also gets 7. This is an interesting and obviously quick boat but Johnstone is still not designing a real cruiser, some reference to the low quality for the highprice should be there, particularly when compared with the First or Duffer also from France. I presume the reference to the GBR challenge yacht was a magazine in joke. I like Js, and have raced on a J35, fast and very wet even down below. By the way this is very far from J's first attempt at a cruiser.
Its a lovely fast looking boat but without a bow roller, a sprayhood or furler it does not meet the 'cruiser' description so why pretend it does and score it so highly on its weaknesses, don't get me wrong I would put up with the basic interior for the performance but my wife has different priorities such as comfort and durabilty before speed. I would love to see your scorer have a go at a few other galleys or chart tables, he would have to give 15 out of 10 quite often.
A more honest report which reflects the difference in the quality of different boats would be a better help to the new reader who does not expect the heavy flattery we have got used to and would also be a service to the builder and designer, it would help to improve the breed generally and attention to detail in particular if makers knew that all their work was going to be subject to proper scrutiny.
I am sure that as in other fields a frank and honest assesment would draw respect and status and you would find that quality boat builders would compete to submit their product.
Snooks
Your assertion that YM boat reviews are candid is contested.
YM have started giving scores out of 10 but you can't get less than 7. The galley on the French J In October is a good example. It has unfinished ply edges, locker doors that open downwards, finishing up over the burners, no worktops and this galley gets 70% in a 'cruising' mag. It is a weekending/ racing galley in a lightweight flyer but useless for cruising, about 4 out of 10 would be fairer. The chart table has a big cut off in the corner and no space for instruments but also gets 7. This is an interesting and obviously quick boat but Johnstone is still not designing a real cruiser, some reference to the low quality for the highprice should be there, particularly when compared with the First or Duffer also from France. I presume the reference to the GBR challenge yacht was a magazine in joke. I like Js, and have raced on a J35, fast and very wet even down below. By the way this is very far from J's first attempt at a cruiser.
Its a lovely fast looking boat but without a bow roller, a sprayhood or furler it does not meet the 'cruiser' description so why pretend it does and score it so highly on its weaknesses, don't get me wrong I would put up with the basic interior for the performance but my wife has different priorities such as comfort and durabilty before speed. I would love to see your scorer have a go at a few other galleys or chart tables, he would have to give 15 out of 10 quite often.
A more honest report which reflects the difference in the quality of different boats would be a better help to the new reader who does not expect the heavy flattery we have got used to and would also be a service to the builder and designer, it would help to improve the breed generally and attention to detail in particular if makers knew that all their work was going to be subject to proper scrutiny.
I am sure that as in other fields a frank and honest assesment would draw respect and status and you would find that quality boat builders would compete to submit their product.
ianat182
Well-Known Member
Regarding the content of the magazines.
Whilst I'm sure that others may disagree, I wonder why the publishers of the magazines don't cotton on to the idea that the magazines are for practical boat owning ,and sailing news/discussion.
There is a wealth of information on these threads which could be selected as the monthly topic(s) i.e I would suggest that the information regarding navigational and mooring opportunities at various ports/anchorages be kept to the YM publication;new boat reviews also.
Items of a maintenance/repair nature,engine maintenance,before and after engine repairs photographs and new products, kept to the PBO umbrella.
Many of the threads here are big money-savers, and genuine help from forumites- not all of us are au fait with computers,so such articles would reach those people. Duplication of subjects not likely,but obvious news items would of course be mentioned by editorial comment or 'readers letters' columns.
Aerial photographs of the different ports around the coast are useful additions to a skipper's logbook,and as the saying goes about the 1000 words,does the job splendidly.Keep these to the YM publication.
Yachting World only provides a picture book for me of all the yachts I could never expect to own, let alone be invited to sail on,or indeed ,afford the varnish costs!
p.s I don't have a regular subscription to any one of these magazines I browse first, then buy - or not.
ianat182
Whilst I'm sure that others may disagree, I wonder why the publishers of the magazines don't cotton on to the idea that the magazines are for practical boat owning ,and sailing news/discussion.
There is a wealth of information on these threads which could be selected as the monthly topic(s) i.e I would suggest that the information regarding navigational and mooring opportunities at various ports/anchorages be kept to the YM publication;new boat reviews also.
Items of a maintenance/repair nature,engine maintenance,before and after engine repairs photographs and new products, kept to the PBO umbrella.
Many of the threads here are big money-savers, and genuine help from forumites- not all of us are au fait with computers,so such articles would reach those people. Duplication of subjects not likely,but obvious news items would of course be mentioned by editorial comment or 'readers letters' columns.
Aerial photographs of the different ports around the coast are useful additions to a skipper's logbook,and as the saying goes about the 1000 words,does the job splendidly.Keep these to the YM publication.
Yachting World only provides a picture book for me of all the yachts I could never expect to own, let alone be invited to sail on,or indeed ,afford the varnish costs!
p.s I don't have a regular subscription to any one of these magazines I browse first, then buy - or not.
ianat182
deep denial
Well-Known Member
A more honest report which reflects the difference in the quality of different boats would be a better help to the new reader who does not expect the heavy flattery we have got used to and would also be a service to the builder and designer said:
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
Agree.
However, don't hold your breath.
IIRC, YM got taken to court (and the cleaners) by a boat builder because of review that was too honest in a brutal kind of way.
Since then, as long as it floated, it was a brilliant boat.
snooks
Well-Known Member
Define "dog"
- Badly built? Not one of the boats I've been on has been badly built, unfinished in places, but a lot of the boats we sail are early production models that are still "evolving"
- Can't sail to windward? All boats can sail to windward at varying degrees (which we print) some higher than others
- Slow? We print wind conditions and speeds to make up your own mind, but lets face it even a pontoon will sail well in a F5
- Uncontrollable? By who? Single handed? a couple? by a racing crew? A boat designed for racing might be your definition of a "dog" if there were just two of you. Likewise a cockpit designed for 2 people would be cramped for a group of 6.
It all comes down to the fact that all boats are different, and what one person might like, another might hate. Your definition of a "dog" might well be under a couple sailing across the Atlantic as I type...so who is right? That's the job of the reviewer to see who the boat is aimed for and see how well and how suitable it is for that job.
Not all boats are designed to sail off across the oceans into the sunset, and to judge all boats as if they are would be wrong.
There are boats that I don't like, but that's my personal opinion, there are boats that I've been embarrassed to have been on, but the person writing the test has loved. (No accounting for taste - it was a mobo btw
)There are boats that I hate, but they are popular and if I mention a make I'm sure someone on here would know someone who's taken one around the world. Like I said above who is right?
snooks
Well-Known Member
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
Posted 11.8.9
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210529
Why oh why are they not forced to talk to each other to ensure they are both different and interesting????
As for Snooks saying ...............
"I've passed you're comments onto Paul, but I'd like to point out that all three magazines are run as three different companies. Each with their own writers, style and way of presenting things."
Did a lot of good then didn't it??
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210529
Why oh why are they not forced to talk to each other to ensure they are both different and interesting????
As for Snooks saying ...............
"I've passed you're comments onto Paul, but I'd like to point out that all three magazines are run as three different companies. Each with their own writers, style and way of presenting things."
Did a lot of good then didn't it??
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Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
and not all boats are brilliant, except of course mine, and that got 77/100
Don't knock it - at least they've heard of your boat
bedouin
Well-Known Member
Are you sure about that? It would be interesting to know the profile of the average reader of YM/PBO. The fact is that once you are settled and own a boat there is very little you need out of a mag. Therefore I suspect that the typical audience for YM are aspirational owners, charterers and maybe newbie owners.
I think within the boating world there is the demand for a more "specialist" publication aimed at the average contributor to these boards, but the problem is it is a comparatively small market and probably not the most attractive to the advertisers (who after all really pay for the magazines)
saltwater_gypsy
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THIS....... ie forums, are the magazines of tomorrow.
I have found more useful information on forums than in any magazine. The are INTERACTIVE and FREE!!!!
Ask a simple question about anchors, chartplotters, best yacht under 30ft etc etc and you get massess of information. PLUS, there is a lot of good humour between the lines.
I have found more useful information on forums than in any magazine. The are INTERACTIVE and FREE!!!!
Ask a simple question about anchors, chartplotters, best yacht under 30ft etc etc and you get massess of information. PLUS, there is a lot of good humour between the lines.