Not such a bad piece of legislation

Trouble is Duncan, whereas I have absolute respect for drink driving laws and will defend the police and the courts to the nth degree to poice and enforce them, in a quiet cruising ground such as N Wales the only thing really to hit is the green stuff and even after two G&T's I am still able to distinguish between that and the softer blue bit and my reactions are lighning fast so that I can and do change course within ten minutes of spotting the peril.

I joke of course, but if Ladyman wants to have a farce, then we may as have some jokes to go with it.
 
7m and 7 knots, or 7 m and 7 knots or 7 m and/or 7 knots.
Seems that in this case, size shouldn't matter. Imagine someone swimming, and a 7 m yacht approaches, doing 3 knots. Even with a drunken skipper, should not be a big prob to avoid disaster. Now imagine the same swimmer faced with a drunken PWC driver ..... doesn't bear thinling about.
Maybe YBW should start a "drunken sailor" forum, as they did for the red diesel debate
 
Is there any point in a law that isn't enforced?

So how will it be enforced and by whom? I can't see the police doing it, they've got enough crap to deal with, so who will?

I would suggest, based purely on prejudice, that pwcs' are the most irresponsibly used water craft, so is there any point in legislation that excludes them?

If they are not a vessel they can't be a convayance, so though theft of one would be an offence, taking without lawful authority wouldn't be............. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I think if we're going to have such legislation, it should apply across the board, to every thing that floats, whatever its size, speed or mass. The fact a slower boat may do less damage if it his someone is as irrelevant for dinghies as it is for bicycles (for which you can be done for being drunk in charge).

That said, I don't think there is the evidence that such a law is required, though thats never stopped Nanny from legislating as only they know best...

Rick
 
I'd be the first to agree that policing this legislation will be difficult and personally I'd say that it's being put there to retrospectively put someone behind bars as a lesson to the others rather than a licence for floating breathalisers but.....

Would you rather condone drunk skippers?
 
The discussion on this issue spans almost all the forums and in one thread someone has sent a link to a labour party minister , guess what , no response so far

So the whole issue revolves around three things
1-Is the legislation needed ? , in my opinion no
2-If they're insisting on bringing it in should there be any mention of size ? , in my opinion no
3-Who would be policing it ? , as we don't have enough Police to deal with things as they are , there is nobody to do it

So on point three this falls flat on its face and the only people likely to be subjected to a breath test are people involved in accidents . If someone has to reset his anchor after a few jars and something happens , the fact that he was trying to avoid something else happening should be a mitigating factor so not a lot to worry about . If they're nissed as a pewt and on the move when they hit a boat or someone in the water then they should be prosecuted anyway , but laws were already in place to take care of that , so yes , this is a complete waste of time and effort , nothing new there then
 
[ QUOTE ]
Is there any point in a law that isn't enforced?

So how will it be enforced and by whom? I can't see the police doing it, they've got enough crap to deal with, so who will?

[/ QUOTE ]

But it will be enforced and that is stated 'clearly' here.

I quote from the statement (Again, as I am working with multiple threads) <span style="color:blue"> "additional classes of persons should be designated as 'marine officials' with the powers to detain a vessel pending the arrival of the police to carry out a test." </span>

So there you have it, a multitude of jobsworths will be empowered to detain vessels where it is suspected the person in charge has had a drink. Which leads to the question, how do they decide who is in charge?

I want to reitereate again that I don't habitually drink and boat, but will admit that I probably have had on at least two occasions in three years, three pints over an afternoon that would have been illegal (just) behind the wheel of a car, but as driving a boat does not require me to stop in short distances and avoid pedestrians, I am convinced that 3 pints over three hours is not excessive or endangered anyones life.
 
Does anyone have any facts on alcohol related accidents in the UK that we can use to formally shoot down this politically motivated, ill-conceived b*llshit?
I have no intention of wrecking my expensive boat or ruining someone else's day by being drunk at the wheel but the governement are suggesting making me a criminal if I continue to have 2 or 3 sociable drinks on an afternoon out.

Perhaps armed with the facts we are better equipped to really oppose this un-necessary political gesturing?
 
Re: Let\'s have a sense of perspective here

[ QUOTE ]
"The reality will be that nothing will happen unless a pissed skipper hits something hard and then could be prosecuted."

Do you know this for a fact?

As Duncan has pointed out the power exists to address this already.



[/ QUOTE ]

You can be sure that the law will be applied very sparingly, if only because the Treasury wont stump up cash for more enforcers, and the civil service unions / culture will prevent existing employees from doing any more work.

The power to deal with drunken sailors doesnt real;ly exist at the moment because there is no incontrovertible definition of drunk. Its back to the old "walking down the white line" days. Tell me how you do that on a boat?

Personally I think its a good idea. I've sailed with too many boozers for comfort including one who used to consume a bottle of whisky a day whilst at sea. And in his case a fair amount of beer before driving.

And whilst I would never claim to be a wonder at holding my booze, I'm not at the other extreme either. Yet after 3 pints of bitter, and feeling perfectly capable of conducting my boat, I had an accident and mounted the pontoon. It was a case of booze encouraged over confidence in the manoeuvre I was doing, and it showed me that despite my absolute conviction that I was unaffected by such a small quantity of beer (and southern pub beer at that ie weak) in actual fact I was affected.

And I know that others on this forum will be just as sure it doesnt affect them when in reality it is doing.

So I dont drink and sail and I dont think you should either. Pious as that may sound. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
Re: Let\'s have a sense of perspective here

The only time I've had a problem with someone drunk on a yacht was when I was 19yrs old and being assesed for my 'cox'n instructor' ticket with the joint services.

The other chap being assesed was a retired RN officer who liked the booze. Entering a river on a falling tide he was in charge and directed the trainee to go the wrong side of a channel marker. I knew that would have put us on the putty and quietly told him so. He went into a drunk sulk below so I countermanded the order and took command.

I heard a year or so later that he had fallen off a tug when drunk off the coast of Canada. It was a bit of a shame, he was a lovely bloke with a great sense of humour and a good seaman when sober.

Only one incident in forty odd years is not, in my opinion, a widespread or serious problem.
 
Re: Let\'s have a sense of perspective here

The difference between us is the different definitions of drunk. If you mean falling down drunk, then I would agree. Its very rare in the main boat though quite common in the tender. That said, I once skippered (stone cold sober - I was driving when I got back) a Sadler 29 containing 8 people who had gone for their gin pennants (9 pints in one session)

However, like most people, I always maintained that I was OK with 2 or 3 pints inside me. In fact I regularly used to drive (pre the drink drive laws) with a great deal more. But that one sailing experience showed me that the govt view (ie the 35mg/l) was nearer right than my view. Effectively, any booze in the system reduces capabilities and affects your sense of balance on a moving boat.

Using that level of consumtion, I bet you have known of many cases of "drunken" sailing. I certainly have.
 
Re: Let\'s have a sense of perspective here

[ QUOTE ]
But that one sailing experience showed me that the govt view (ie the 35mg/l) was nearer right than my view.

[/ QUOTE ]

And once they adopt the European drink drive levels - 50 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood, instead of the current 80 milligrams, will be even safer? Or will it just mean that more boat skippers wind up in court?
 
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