Not again :-(

[ari]

If the boat had new covers and upholstery, new turbos, new fuel lines, new outdrive shafts, new heat exchangers, newly tested injectors, new props, etc then it would certainly add value in my book.

New covers and upholstery - absolutely agree, but that's not really repairs.

Would I pay more for a boat with new fuel lines or a new outdrive shaft? I can't really see why. A new engine, sure, but the rest is just maintenance or necessary repairs. One less thing to go wrong, maybe, but there's plenty else that will.

 

[ari]

If you look back on the forum the old chestnut of KAD32s in an S34 comes up with the underpowered comments almost exclusively coming from people who don’t or haven’t owned one - no offence intended
Inevitably an owner comes along and reports that they are perfectly adequate - to quote one they are more cruiser than sports but no issues with performance year round. There then follows one or two comments conceding that they must be okay because Sealine might have known what they were doing and they were by far the most popular engine choice in the S34.

All of this featured in my research before deciding what we wanted, which was a KAD32 engined S34 so this time round I am that owner who can report that the KAD32 is well matched to the boat, providing all the speed we want and perfectly adequate for our cruising needs and with the benefit of a palatial engine bay for comfortable owner maintenance - as long as that is allowed

No question it wouldn’t keep up with Pete’s Targa 34 but then that wasn’t in our list of requirements

Horses for courses - no issue with choosing a higher powered boat but don’t do it on the basis of a mistaken belief that the smaller engines are no good

All fair comments, and if you own one you'll have more knowledge than me! I was basing my thoughts on someone I knew who bought one then sold it within 4 months (for a Fairline Targa 34 with KAD 44 engines). That and the fact that the KAD 32s seem so prevalent in boats like the Sealine S28 and Targa 29, but maybe the S34 is lighter than I realised.

Anyway, if it works for you, fair enough. you should know!

 

[petem]

New covers and upholstery - absolutely agree, but that's not really repairs.

Would I pay more for a boat with new fuel lines or a new outdrive shaft? I can't really see why. A new engine, sure, but the rest is just maintenance or necessary repairs. One less thing to go wrong, maybe, but there's plenty else that will.

New fuel lines - £1000
Outdrive shaft replacement - £4000
New OEM turbos - £4000
New heat exchangers - £2000
New OEM props - £3500
Refurbished injectors - £1000
Etc.

Chances are that many or all of these "ticking time bombs" will need repairing / replacing in the next 5 years or so on an early 2000's boat. That's why 'd pay a premium for a boat that has had all of these items addressed.

 

[ari]

Yes but that's maintenance.

Every time something breaks on a boat and you fix or repair it, the boat doesn't rise in value, it just works again.

Unless it's something really fundamental like an entire new engine or outdrive, I wouldn't attach any extra value just because someone's fixed one of 10,000 bits that might go wrong when I own it, I'd be very surprised if anyone did.

New canopies, upholstery, etc, you can see and appreciate. The fact that it once broke and someone fixed it you can't.

 

[petem]

Yes but that's maintenance.

Every time something breaks on a boat and you fix or repair it, the boat doesn't rise in value, it just works again.

Unless it's something really fundamental like an entire new engine or outdrive, I wouldn't attach any extra value just because someone's fixed one of 10,000 bits that might go wrong when I own it, I'd be very surprised if anyone did.

New canopies, upholstery, etc, you can see and appreciate. The fact that it once broke and someone fixed it you can't.

So taking your argument to its logical conclusion you'd pay the same of a boat that has just had all of those items replaced as you would for one that hasn't had any of them replaced? Suit yourself!

 

[petem]

Wrong thinking, P.
When looking for a used boat, such thing as the bargain of your life that got away simply does not exist.
What do exist are other opportunities you are not yet aware of.

I disagree. If anything the value of some used boats is rising, we'd have to pay a lot more to replace our boat than we paid for it.

Poor Russ has £75k burning a hole in his pocket and wants to get out on the water. At some point you just have to go for it.

 

[stelican]

I can’t believe how kin hard it is to buy a boat. The dealer has just emailed to say the price has risen in order to cover the repair costs. £85k for an 05 S34. I don’t think so.
Totally fed up with whole boat search.

That's a pain, How much did they bump the price?
Hindsight is a great thing.
When you find the next boat it would be prudent to get a deposit down subject to your satisfactory survey, Seems like there is a shortage of boats now.

 

[BruceK]

You have set your mind on a S34. Not a bad thing. When I was looking I had target fixation on my choice and searched for months before almost giving up on the whole debacle. In the end I ended up with a completely different boat which turned out to be better for me all round. I guess what I am saying is although you have a target boat in mind when you are out having a look at it, pop round and have a look over any other similar type vessels within the area. It will widen your search, lose nothing by it, and may even pleasantly surprise yourself with something as nice or better. Not that the S34 isn't top drawer, but other gems are to be found.

 

[ari]

So taking your argument to its logical conclusion you'd pay the same of a boat that has just had all of those items replaced as you would for one that hasn't had any of them replaced? Suit yourself!

Thank you. And by the same token, good luck trying to get extra money for a boat that's had a new turbo on one engine and some new fuel lines because my guess is, you'll be disappointed.

 

[oldgit]

Blimey has that rather somewhat disputatious stroppy forumite time arrived already, gets earlier each season. !
PARCERASEVIRDTUO.

 

[BruceK]

Thank you. And by the same token, good luck trying to get extra money for a boat that's had a new turbo on one engine and some new fuel lines because my guess is, you'll be disappointed.

Well yes and no and I may never realise the difference in cash but on my boat when evaluated by the insurance recommended surveyor and revalued it rose significantly compared to the price of purchase precisely because the drives had been refurbished, new root chargers, documented repairs and maintenance and general cosmetics replaced (paint works, vinyls, canopy, carpets etc etc). I'd like to to say I thought it was a fair assessment and the uplift unbeknown to the surveyor pretty much matched what I had pumped into the boat so there must be a correlation....??

 

[ari]

Well yes and no and I may never realise the difference in cash but on my boat when evaluated by the insurance recommended surveyor and revalued it rose significantly compared to the price of purchase precisely because the drives had been refurbished, new root chargers, documented repairs and maintenance and general cosmetics replaced (paint works, vinyls, canopy, carpets etc etc). I'd like to to say I thought it was a fair assessment and the uplift unbeknown to the surveyor pretty much matched what I had pumped into the boat so there must be a correlation....??

If you'd simply changed a few oily bits rather than made the boat more attractive, do you think an actual buyer would pay you more for it?

Or, if you prefer, if you looked at a boat and the turbo had blown on one engine and been replaced, would you be prepared to pay more for it than if that hadn't happened?

 

[Greg2]

All fair comments, and if you own one you'll have more knowledge than me! I was basing my thoughts on someone I knew who bought one then sold it within 4 months (for a Fairline Targa 34 with KAD 44 engines). That and the fact that the KAD 32s seem so prevalent in boats like the Sealine S28 and Targa 29, but maybe the S34 is lighter than I realised.

Anyway, if it works for you, fair enough. you should know!

I follow your thought pattern and if the person you knew who sold quickly wanted a speed machine then they would have been disappointed. I had the same thoughts and questions when we were looking and got satisfactory answers before we took the plunge. Have heard it said that the KAD32 actually develops 190hp as opposed to the badged 170hp but no idea if that is true - flat out at WOT is 27 knots and cruise is 20-22, which is slow for some I guess but is fine by us. Guess it will be 30+ with those engines in an S28.

 

[petem]

I follow your thought pattern and if the person you knew who sold quickly wanted a speed machine then they would have been disappointed. I had the same thoughts and questions when we were looking and got satisfactory answers before we took the plunge. Have heard it said that the KAD32 actually develops 190hp as opposed to the badged 170hp but no idea if that is true - flat out at WOT is 27 knots and cruise is 20-22, which is slow for some I guess but is fine by us. Guess it will be 30+ with those engines in an S28.

I've heard of Targa 30's with KAD32's making 40kts and have no reason to disbelieve them from my own experience in ours.

I would hope that an S28 with the same engines is pushing high 30's too.

 

[[2068]]

I've heard of Targa 30's with KAD32's making 40kts and have no reason to disbelieve them from my own experience in ours.

I would hope that an S28 with the same engines is pushing high 30's too.

34kts on a good day for an S28.

Our neighbour with a Targa 30 could hit 38-39kts. Not sure he ever quite made it to 40kts without any tidal assistance.

.

 

[Kawasaki]

I can’t believe how kin hard it is to buy a boat. .

I can russ
Well, 'WE' can
Pal is and has been looking for 18 months ish
OK, it took 8months really to establish the Type and Brands
The search has taken us to most corners of the UK , plus Holland and Spain
Met 3 Brokers in Holland
Times Dates etc were made
2 Met us like we had just turned up on a Whim.
Totally unready to meet and greet and show us the vessels discussed numerous times prior to departing to Holland
These People have fancy websights and showrooms/ Yards
Unproffesional to the enth degree
'Oh! yes, sorry Peder will see you but He has only been with us 3 days and does not really know His way around or the Product yet, you see Ulrich left the Firm two days ago'!
Tother Place the 'Salesman' had been to the Arthur Daly school of sales, plus the boat in question was still being prepped for sale
Although adverts purporting to it claimed She was 'Immaculate and turn key'!
Lying sods
Third Broker was great
High Guys, would you like tea , coffee or a cold drink, come into the office and take a seat'
His Business builds archetypical Steel vessels
The one we wanted to view was a 'Trade In'
At the drop of a hat we had a short sea trial 'gratis'
Brilliant honest chap
Boat was as described and Mint
Figures discussed and Deal nearly done
Just the boat had, we thinkan inbuilt design problem
Discussed this with the Manufacturer over the phone and at the Southampton boat show last year but nobody to this day can convince us
Plus we found out (sea trial proved it) that She was a full planing hull which was not what was wanted
Spanish Broker (German chap working there) was OK but the Proof of ownership/ tax paid/ CE Plate stuff , plus more still has not been proven, plus vague service history etc
4 months since the visit!!
Two well known British Brokers have been quite accomodating and truthfull about the Boats they are selling
One was after a quick viewing not was was wanted
The other has motors that we think could give problems in the future but enquiries about that are ongoing and today I think an offer will be made
Very similar to the one in Spain which has motors that we know will be ok
Offer has actually been made on Her, subject to all the paper work etc etc being proven
After the offer it seems the Broker has gone on a Sabbatical!!
One vessel has been sea trialled up in Scotland by my friend
With the owner
So a bid was made very very close to the asking
Subject to Survey
The Broker replied
'Oh! a Greek will buy Her unseen, no survey He won't even bother to come and look at Her'
In other words
Bugger off Lads we are too busy to deal with 2 Taffs with their rear ends poking out their Jeans
Met the Broker darn sarf a week or so ago, whilst looking at another vessel in the same Marina, where the Broker's headquarters are
'Scuse Me Mr Broker but that boat the Greek was gonna buy 'unseen' is still advertised'??
'Yeh , we dont take vessels off the Market till all funds have been recieved'
Today, the boat is till advertised!
Yesterday a similar but larger one has just been advertised
So Matey rang the Broker
'Oh sorry we are so busy this week and next week, then I go on holiday'
You are welcome call and view Her but I dont think anybody will be able to help you view'
So we drive a 700 mile round trip just to stare at the vessel from the Marina wall
I think not!
Here this
The Broker said
'Oh, the boat might still be here in August, I am not in a hurry to sell Her'
Kinnel!
I wonder if the current owner would like to hear that comment
I could go on
And on and on in this Theme
'There's More' as that Irish Comedian used to say
Brokers
Bloody Comedians themselves!
:nonchalance:

 

[Bigplumbs]

Rus

As others have hinted if 75 K is your budget I think you need to drop down a level from a S34 or look at the earlier ones with Kad 32s

 

[Bigplumbs]

I look at Sealine almost every day on the net and their price seem to be going up somewhat

Mind you I know where there is an S37 you could get for 55k

 

[russ]

Rus

As others have hinted if 75 K is your budget I think you need to drop down a level from a S34 or look at the earlier ones with Kad 32s

I've set the budget to £80k but that has to be for a turn key boat really. The up side is I am saving money and my budget is rising,:encouragement:

 

[volvopaul]

Oh Russ , reading this makes me feel like your this victim but if the brokers company sat down in the real world hey wouldn’t be asking you for more money for a boat that they have taken in PX because it’s horrible faults .
They are trying to make you pay for there initial buy in that’s a load of crap but they need to make the deal work to sell the px they have .
Don’t be the victim here from there incompetence, don’t think that boat dealers are any more upmarket than a dodgy used car outfit , there probably worse if you look at the numbers sold.

Of late I have surveyed quite a few boats and found many defect, the attitude from brokers is unfounded to the point it’s buy it as it is of F off as we have plenty of purchasers lined up for this boat .
What they think is they have a market that dictates we hold the cards , you buy as it is or go away .
Shocking state of affairs , I have first hand knowledge or your company your dealing with based on previous surveys.

Abide your time , keep your cash for the right deal, this kind of practice just shows what the marine industry is all about .
It could never be a worse time to buy a boat, the market is ****ed.