North Channel , whats the secret

[stephenk]

Am a relative newcomer to the Solent and I am struggling to find advice regarding leaving via the Needles channel for Poole etc.
Tried to leave a few weeks ago via the North Channel, tide was hard on the ebb and the wind was SW5. Breakers were far too big for my 26 ft boat and seemed to stretch nearly to the castle with no obvious safe channel so turned round and did not bother.
1 - Is the North channel the safest route for small boats

2 - Is it bouyed and whats the best time for leaving for Poole

Stephen
Is there a web site with advice re headlands/channels etc

 

[l'escargot]

If any wind from a westerly direction at all (and it is the prevailing wind) aim to pass through Hurst Channel at slack water, the flow can be almost 4.5 knots on springs. Wind against tide causes many problems here. Likewise coming back.

I don't think many people would choose to go out through Hurst on full ebb in anything but light winds - if then.

The North Channel is the channel to the North of The Shingles which commences outside of Hurst Channel. You will pick up buoyage once outside as per charts. Used generally by smaller boats as, being shallower, there tends to be less tide.

No particular hazards off Hurst Castle if passing through at HW, if returning at LW watch out for The Trap which is a gravel bank just inside the entrance which catches those keeping in close to avoid the full flow of the ebb.

Have a look at the book "Solent Hazards", essential reading for Solent sailors and also "Wight Hazards" if venturing round the back of the Island.

 

[Chris_Stannard]

The Hurst narrows are always disturbed when the tide is strong. In my experience the smoothest water is to be found close in to Sconce. Having got passed the Castle you can then turn to port to pass North of the Cardinal into the Norht channel. It is not advisable to use the Needles channel with a strong SW wind either on the ebb or on the flood, in either direction. I came in once with a wind against tide situation and needed clean underpants, although we got away with it. There can be some very large standing waves there

I have used the North Channel to come in in a similar situation at night and the channel is perfectly reasonable.

However I think you were right, if you think a passage outside the capacity of your boat or crew, then do not do it. My suggestion would be to explore the route on a calm day, it is a good sail.

If you are a GPS user Peter Cummberlidges Waypoint directory might help, but make sure you put the right datum in to your GPS.

Good sailing

Chris Stannard

 

[ParaHandy]

small correction - it's right hand down a bit (turn to starboard) when passed the castle to go North of the NE Shingles cardinal into North Channel? Might be me - it's late.

The tide will sweep you down onto this cardinal from Sconce so start your turn early once passed Hurst Castle. The first time I went through there, that's what I didn't calculate for and went behind it which was no problem as plenty of water and had engine ticking over just in case so booted it out of there. It's not a place to be indecisive.

 

[billmacfarlane]

For the first time through the North Channel I'd go through at high water slack to catch the ebb to Poole. The cardinal mark near Hurst Castle marks the safe water and though I don't have my chart to hand , there is a buoy I think bears roughly NNW fro the mark which marks the point for turning West to Poole. Bear in mind as you head for it the tide is now ebbing westward. Don't try to go through with a strong contrary tide as you'll be sick of the sight of Hurst Castle. If the wind allows , anchor in the lee of the Spit and wait for the tide to turn . I personally always use the North Channel unless heading South. I had a very scary experience in the Needle Channel once and never use it unless I have to.

 

[Twister_Ken]

North Channel runs parallel to the beach from Milton on Sea to Hurst Castle. Tidal currents (parallel to beach) are generally less than half of what you’d expect in the main Needles Channel.

The Channel is exposed to the W and SW and big winds from that quadrant create an unpleasant sea, especially with back waves off of the beach. Not as bad as the seas in the Needles Channel, but still not nice. Remember, in those circumstances, Hurst Spit is a very unpleasant lee(ish) shore if anything goes wrong.

Entry at northern end is by passing close to North Head Buoy (green can), quite difficult to see from seaward but look in the vicinity of where the shingle of Hurst spit meets some rock sea defences and woodland at the Keyhaven end. Plenty of boats cross into the North Channel well south of this buoy, so I guess there’s depth there. Once in the channel you can sail fairly close to the beach, which is relatively steep to.

Southern end of channel is marked by a red can (NE Shingles?). If you’re entering the Solent against the tide, stick close to Hurst (50m or so offshore) where tide is a lot less.

When to use the North Channel? (Usual caveats about wind strength and sea state apply). Almost any when that you are heading to or from Christchurch or Poole. Otherwise, if you’re facing a foul tide, you’ll make better progress in the North Channel than in the Needles Channel. As to wind strengths, in strong winds with east in them the North Channel will be much smoother. In any wind over tide conditions the North Channel will be smoother than the Needles Channel, but if you’ve got more than about F5 wind-over tide and you’re going west, I’d change plans, and stay in the Solent (nice temporary anchorage east of the Hurst spit) then go out on the slack (or the last 30 minutes of the ebb/flood) and nip into the North Channel.

Hope it helps.

 

[steve_cronin]

can endorse all that Ken says....

The usual "passage plan" for us in 28 years (17 in the Solent & 10 in Poole - so it was usually part of the regular cruise to Studland or to the Solent!) was - when going west - to clear the Castle by around 150yds then turn onto 270M and with our then 1.2metre draught we stayed on this all the way to studland. If ever we arrived at low water (which wasn't likely especially if we were heading for the Hamble but possible when in the early days our destination was Yarmouth) then we would follow the channel marked by the green can "North Channel" buoy and the NE cardinal. Otherwise there is plenty of water over the head of the Shingles in a moderate draught yacht. Don't mess with the middle of the bank though! It is also good advice to avoid BOTH channels in strong winds, giving up on the main channel first, there are strong overfalls on "The Bridge".

Steve Cronin

 

[ParaHandy]

I wonder if all of this advice has passed the point of being safe to being downright dangerous? Objective advice is that you pass to the north of a north cardinal and any other is entirely subjective depending on the prevailing conditions?

In other words, should we not restrict ourselves to advising that a good almanac and chart will suffice. The rest is up to you (as stephenk clearly demonstrates).

 

[stephenk]

Thanks for hard won advice/experience.
Will hopefully coincide next trip with good weather and slack tides and go and have another look. The book Solent Hazards sounds like a good idea. The Shell channel Pilot is vgood in most respects but does not go into that much detail for some hazards.
I suspect that a website regarding various headlands/channels around the country would be of a lot of use to many.
See you on the water.
Stephen

 

[Chris_Stannard]

Correct, make that port to the right!

Many thanks for the correction, I guess it was too late last night.

Chris Stannard

 

[oldharry]

No, Parahandy, we should not restrict ourselves to what the Almanac etc can tell us. If we did whats the point of asking? The reason this question came up was clearly because of what the Almanac does NOT tell us - that this is not a good place to be when the going gets rough, and why. Also it will not tell us at what point conditons are likely to deteriorate beyond what we feel comfortable with. Yes, its the choice of the individual skipper in the light of his boat, crew and experience etc, but by asking people who already know, a skipper can make a much more informed and seamanlike decision on a proposed course of action, and thereby reduce the risk of becoming an RNLI statistic or worse.

Otherwise, what are these forums all about?

My own experiences of the North Channel in 28 years of sailing out that way in small boats are that it is right to be very wary in strong SW winds, essential to work with the tides to avoid getting caught in a bad wind-over tide- on a lee shore, and is most definitely safer that the main Needles Channel where even in calm conditions you will have an uncomfortable ride through the Bridge. A fact again not at all clear from charts and Almanacs.

A Minesweeper out there recently reported solid water on the bridge while outbound past the Needles. Clearly not the place for a family crewed 26 footer.......!

 

[alant]

Macmillans Almanac specifically states in the section 10-2-16 'Needles Channel' " In strong winds the North Channel, N of the Shingles, is preferable to the Needles Channel. The two join S of Hurst Point where overfalls and tide rips may be met."
Using Fort Albert on the island shore as a back bearing, North Head buoy is about 286 (T). The tide will be ebbing at -1hr HW Portsmouth & this ebb flow must be considered initially when heading for North Head, since the tide in vicinity of NE Shingles will be setting strongly on about 260 (T). Too close in under Hurst Castle, you will get a strong counter current.
If there are 'strong' SW winds, do not attempt Needles Channel on either ebb or flow, because of very big breaking seas which get up at the Bridge. The 3 deaths back in 1987 in this vicinity happened when there were strong winds 'with' tide in this area (the winds were F11 on that day).
If using the North Channel, beware fishing pots in area near Hengistbury Head.

 

[oldharry]

What the Almanac says....

is not as specific as a lot of the advice which has been given through this posting. Now I know that the Almanac condemns the North Channel as a mish-mash of 'Tide rips and Overfalls' I shall never dare go there again......

.....Except of course for the kind people who responded to the original enquiry, have filled out the Almanac comment, and re-assured me that the many times i have used that channel in the last 30 years I have not been quite so incredibly lucky to get away with it as the Alamanac appears to make out!

And I quite often find more salt water in the cockpit from that bit of water than anywhere else on a cruise!

My response was to Parahandy who thought that there had been a bit of overkill in the advice given - local knowledge of this kind fills out what the Pilot books and Almanacs say, which to my mind can only be a good thing.

 

[claymore]

There\'s Only One North Channel, Laddie

An' its a guid way frae yon Solent.

regards
Claymore

 

[claymore]

Jings, Dougie Laddie

Whit are ye daein' doon there?
Are ye hondin oot the duff infermation tae get they English jessies a' shipwrecked?
Aye - weel carry on then laddie - guid on ye!

regards
Claymore

 

[peterb]

There\'s lots, old boy

Actually, there are lots of North Channels. The one we are talking about is just outside the Solent, but there's also one inside the Solent, leading south-east from Southampton Water. And if you want to argue, take it up with the Hydrographer!

 

[cleo]

Good decision, Stephen. The North Channel is recognised as usually being less problematic than via the Needles Fairway and past the Brambles Bank, before turning right. But it's not always safe ENOUGH!
All the pilot books - others' deep experience - warn that big wind against big ebbtide there, as in many other places, produces conditions that are dangerous. They can and do kill, as the cox'n of the Yarmouth lifeboat will tell you.
Part of the task is anticipating - from experience or from accounts of others' - where the problems are likely, then going somewhere else.
You got it right.

You could look in Solent Tides and Solent Hazards by Peter Bruce - they're both very well regarded.
Cleo

bilbo

 

[claymore]

No- there\'s only one.

It separates the green hills of Antrim from the high hills of Galloway

regards
Claymore

 

[Guest]

Re: There\'s Only One North Channel, Laddie

It's pointless arguing with southerners, their North Channel will be somewhere around Watford. Don't forget the flat world ends just before Swansea, obviously why the tides run so hard in the REAL North Channel

Regards,

Peter
http://www.mistressofmourne.com

 

[peterb]

Re: There\'s Only One North Channel, Laddie

As someone who lives within 4 miles of Watford, I can assure you that it's nowhere near here. Or were you thinking of the Great North Road?