Nordhavns - the Marmite motorboat

petem said:
I certainly admire Elling for thinking outside the box and for the execution. Perhaps they're more a Marmite boat than an Nordhavn?
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Yes, a fair point actually. Whilst they are far from pokey the accommodation below is more akin to a yacht than the average mobo because it is all in the hull so may well not appeal to many mobo types.
 
We found it really interesting when we stopped hammering around in our Princess V39 to 'get there quickly' and moved to the Fleming. At first, we first cruised at 12-14 kts, but soon realised how peacefull and better it was to 'go with the sea' rather than fight it. D speed gives comfort, no nasty sudden movements, and the best bit (apart from minimal fuel burn) is that you can enjoy the ride and arrive feeling just as refreshed as when you started.

We're often asked if having the ability to open the throttles 'in case it's necessary' is why it's essential to have two big engines. But in many years of D crusiing we've never had to open up. So no, it's not.

So, single engine please with a hull. OK, Nordhavns have a wing eninge 'in case', but I've yet to meet an owner who's ever had to use it in anger. Anyone know better?
 
Piers said:
Nordhavns have a wing eninge 'in case', but I've yet to meet an owner who's ever had to use it in anger. Anyone know better?
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In the short time we have been members of the Nordhavn Owners Group 3 posts have mentioned having to rely on a wing engine:
1) (this post prompted the others) Recent 5 day passage through a canal (main engine overheated)
2) Some years ago - Atlantic Avenue to Ft Lauderdale (cause of main engine failure not given)
3) Also some years ago - main engine shut down and would not start (cause not given)

I also came across this some time ago: http://www.kensblog.com/FAQs (search on the page for "wing) and http://www.kensblog.com/2008/12/06/To-wing--or-not-to-wing

The Hamiltons on Dirona used their wing engine 7 days ago (20 January) when they elected to do a mid-Atlantic oil change. Right now it's on the home page, scroll down the recent log entries to "Oil Change".
 
Offshore fishing vessels are often cited as not having twin or wing engines. Having watched some of those Trawlermen type programmes on TV I can confirm that they do suffer from engine failure with serious potential consequences (broaching, etc). And these breakdowns are despite having an engineer on the crew. So for me, it would be a worthwhile 'insurance policy'.
 
Interesting. In over 25 years of boating I've only suffered one engine failure, and that was a belt failure and easily corrected. Are engine failures mainly caused by poor, incomplete, lazy or scrimped maintenance?

So, given my experience with engines not failing under my watch (oh dear, have I just dug myself a hole?) I'd still prefer a single engine. The lovely thing about a Nordhavn is the full walk around and accessibility of all engine parts. No excuse for poor maintenance.
 
Piers said:
Interesting. In over 25 years of boating I've only suffered one engine failure, and that was a belt failure and easily corrected. Are engine failures mainly caused by poor, incomplete, lazy or scrimped maintenance?
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I blew an engine by sucking a poly bag into the raw water inlet. By the time the temp alarm went off the damage was done. I suppose an EGT alarm would have given me early warning and possibly avoided the damage.
 
hm, you seem to be focusing on engine failure, but I beg to differ with a recent gearbox failure :D
So unless I'd like to travel on astern, a wing engine would be handy (well in my case it was the stbrd engine doing all the work getting us to port..)

If I ever get a chance to buy a Nordhavn (highly unlikely as I don't do lotto), it will have to be one with a wing engine (or a Motorsailer ;) )

cheers

V.
 
TwoHooter said:
A couple of threads recently have drifted off (degenerated?) into discussions of the pros and cons of Nordhavn motor yachts, the Marmite of the boating world.d.
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We have drifted slightly off into the usual discussion between Displacement/Planning and Single/twin engines.

The speed of just 6-7 knots for the Nordhavn is somehow misleading - specially if you compare with a 55-80 ft boat. A Nordhavn (or any other Displacement boat) at that length is also able to pootle along ard 10 knots - Fuel cost may even be similar. For the N40 single engine is maybe the only option, but for bigger Nordhavns twins are not unusual, and the extra cost for twin engines may be less than expected as with single engines there will be a wing engine plus most likely a stern thruster to be paid.


I once heard a yauchtconstructor say that the customers of Nordhavns must be afraid of water since they want so tall boats - Nordhavn compensate with solid ballast, and a Nordhavn without stabs.....?

BUT the Nordhavns look like the customer want them !
Customers to FPB have a total different view, but they also want them this way.

Nordhavn is just one brand out of many LRC. I have only been onboard one Nordhavn (57) and I always thought that they claimed being built in solid GRP only - just looked on their Website, and noticed that the N55 use Baltek in the superstructure. Probably other models as well ?

Oh - one thing. To me the helm on a Nordhavn looks terrible - and the steering wheel. Ugly (in my eyes)

In a Nordhavn its not important whether you make long distance cruising, or just round the corner. Main thing is to be onboard.
 
You're making some sweeping generalizations, methink.

1) "a Nordhavn without stabs.....?": name me one full D boat that doesn't need stabs (for comfort I mean, not for safety), and I'll buy her.

2) "terrible helm" and "ugly steering wheel": the Nordhavn p/house as a whole is rather typical of most LRC. I can't think of anything Nordhavn-specific that can make them stand out, neither as best nor worst. What parts of Nordie helms do you think are terrible, exactly? And also for the steering wheel, there's no such thing as a "Nordhavn-only" wheel. I've seen steel, wood, and both. And I've seen vertical wheels as well as "truck-style" wheels. I suppose they would be happy to build a boat for you with no wheel at all, if you sign above the dotted line.

Besides, I'd be curious to hear what sort of boats are produced by that builder who commented about Nordhavn owners being afraid of the water.

Mind, I actually agree with your last statement: the few Nordies that crossed oceans surely achieve more hype than the majority of them, who are mostly marina queens.
And while the build quality is above average for good, imho they are rather overpriced.
But I struggle to see the point of your criticisms.
 
This Nordhavn 'Southern Star' has just rounded the northern end of Barbados at a speed of 6.5 knots after a 14 day passage from Mindelo in the Cabo Verde islands :
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:698788
There is only one photo in her collection, but it was taken in New Zealand in June 2013.

She is accompanied by Starlet (which is slightly in the lead) - Starlet is one of the original 46's (and in my humble opinion I think she looks much nicer than Southern Star).
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:446596

Starlet has also travelled many miles in her lifetime so far - according to her photo collection she was cruising the Eastern Seaboard of the USA in 2011 before crossing the Atlantic and cruising Spain and Portugal in 2012/13, while her most recent photo was taken in Greece in May last year.
 
Piers said:
Interesting. In over 25 years of boating I've only suffered one engine failure, and that was a belt failure and easily corrected. Are engine failures mainly caused by poor, incomplete, lazy or scrimped maintenance?
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Its not about the number of engines but the number of props. In 25yrs of boating, I've only ever experienced one incident which put an engine out of action but I've experienced a number of prop foulings which have made me very thankful that I've had a second prop to get me home. In addition, I've twice experienced steering failure and again having the differential thrust of 2 props allowed me to get home

Yes you can have a wing engine in a single main engine set up but to my mind, if you're going to have a wing engine, you might as well have a twin engine set up in the first place
 
I
Deleted User said:
Its not about the number of engines but the number of props. In 25yrs of boating, I've only ever experienced one incident which put an engine out of action but I've experienced a number of prop foulings which have made me very thankful that I've had a second prop to get me home. In addition, I've twice experienced steering failure and again having the differential thrust of 2 props allowed me to get home

This is a tough one and perhaps the most debated topic on the forum, my view is that if you are happy with full Displacement then a single and a get me home wing engine is the perfect compromise, as it says it's a get me home engine, full displacement is clearly geared up for long distance a big part of why it will only have one engine in the first place

Yes you can have a wing engine in a single main engine set up but to my mind, if you're going to have a wing engine, you might as well have a twin engine set up in the first place
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MapisM said:
You're making some sweeping generalizations, methink.

1) "a Nordhavn without stabs.....?": name me one full D boat that doesn't need stabs (for comfort I mean, not for safety), and I'll buy her.

2) "terrible helm" and "ugly steering wheel": the Nordhavn p/house as a whole is rather typical of most LRC. I can't think of anything Nordhavn-specific that can make them stand out, neither as best nor worst. What parts of Nordie helms do you think are terrible, exactly? And also for the steering wheel, there's no such thing as a "Nordhavn-only" wheel. I've seen steel, wood, and both. And I've seen vertical wheels as well as "truck-style" wheels. I suppose they would be happy to build a boat for you with no wheel at all, if you sign above the dotted line.

Besides, I'd be curious to hear what sort of boats are produced by that builder who commented about Nordhavn owners being afraid of the water.

Mind, I actually agree with your last statement: the few Nordies that crossed oceans surely achieve more hype than the majority of them, who are mostly marina queens.
And while the build quality is above average for good, imho they are rather overpriced.
But I struggle to see the point of your criticisms.
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Oh excuse me if I stepped on your feet. It was not my intention :)

No doubts the Nordhavns are fitted to go off shore, but Initial and ultimate stability is not the same. Nordhavns are tall boats and being tall boats with ballast their roll accelleration is greater than lower boats with no (or little) need for ballast. I guess that a maximum of 10 pct of this Forum members live without stabs, and we also get a hot meal every day (at sea).
If you take both a 40 ft Nordhavn and a sportscruiser (Fairline, Princess - you name it) to sea in a force 4-5 and stop engine. Wait 10 mins for both boats to settle and you will notice that the Nordhavn (without stabs) will roll more (maybe an idea for mby to compare)

Helm - well I did say that I didnt like the helm. What I didnt like on the N57 where was as said the truck style stearing wheel. It looked totally wrong to me. Also the Nav-aids are in a "wall" in front of the stearing wheel covering the lower part of the windows, and thus the view forward. I apreciate that the rubber flooring at the helm is non slippery, but I found it ugly.
- We live in a free world, you choose your helm, and I chose mine -

Would I still want a N57 ??? Ofcourse
 
piratos said:
If you take both a 40 ft Nordhavn and a sportscruiser (Fairline, Princess - you name it) to sea in a force 4-5 and stop engine. Wait 10 mins for both boats to settle and you will notice that the Nordhavn (without stabs) will roll more (maybe an idea for mby to compare)
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It would indeed be an interesting comparison. I don't know which one would roll more in terms of it's roll angle but I'm pretty sure I know which one would roll slower and thats just as important. The fast snappy movement of a typical stationary planing boat in a beam sea is particularly unpleasant

As for the helms in a Nordhavn, I agree they're not pretty but they're very functional. Yes the navaids are indeed displayed in a wall in front of the wheel but that makes them easy to see and easy to operate. I'll take that over style any day
 
piratos said:
Oh excuse me if I stepped on your feet. It was not my intention :)
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No worries - you must be pretty thin anyway, my feet didn't even notice. :D

I struggle to answer your comments though, 'cause I'm not sure to understand them.
Did you by chance mean roll amplitude (or period), rather than acceleration, when you said it's higher in a Nordie?
And re. ultimate stability, are you suggesting that it's lost at a higher or lower degree in a N., vs. other boats?
The point of the comparison among a 40' N. and a sportcruiser rolling adrift in a F4/5 also puzzles me.
Otoh, if you really think that it takes 10 minutes for either of these boats to settle and become uncomfortable, I understand why you are interested to read about that on a magazine... :rolleyes:
 
It's interesting to see where this discussion is going. What I know from experience dervied from owning a Fleming and talking with Nordhavn owners, is that we all are grateful for stabilisers yet we've all experienced failures. Sometimes just one fin, but worse, on both. It maybe that given the way Nordhavns are built they have a slower roll, but in my mind different seas and different conditions will dictate how each fares and which might just pass their vanishing point the sooner.

So, which would I choose given a horrid sea and no stabs? I don't know, but if I knew the architect's geometary on both, I suspect i'd be able to make an informed decision. All I see is that Nordhavns seem to roll more (meaning further), but on the other hand they are built to take tough seas (as I've said before, storm windows, dogged doors, etc).
 
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