NordHaven

[oldgit]

Have always worshipped these boats from afar.
Then in moment of weakness watched one of Aquaholics walkrounds.
Loved the simplicity and ease of maintainance, the built in redundancy , engines controlled by Bowden cables, mechanical fuel injectors. M,mmm.
O my God the interiors were hideous, it looked to have been finished with B&M Fablon and cramped or what.
The tugs I used to work on looked nicer.
Just saying.
It will a shiney blingy Gin Palace for me when the bloke I bought my Bitcoins from comes out of jail.

 

[billskip]

Have always worshipped these boats from afar.
Then in moment of weakness watched one of Aquaholics walkrounds.
Loved the simplicity and ease of maintainance, the built in redundancy , engines controlled by Bowden cables, mechanical fuel injectors. M,mmm.
O my God the interiors were hideous, it looked to have been finished with Fablon and cramped or what.
The tugs I used to work on looked nicer.
Just saying.
It will a shiney blingy Gin Palace for me when the bloke I bought my Bitcoins from comes out of jail.

Your welcome to prefer your IKEA interiors

 

[Momac]

There is no 'e' in Nordhavn nor is there a capital 'H'.

 

[oldgit]

Your welcome to prefer your IKEA interiors

Some attempt (any ?) to make all that fake wood look a bit woodier in £3+ M boat would be nice
Must have used an entire small oil field to produce enough plastic laminate get that effect. ?
Yes, it can cross oceans, but why would you want to do 3000 miles wearing a hair shirt.

The skipper will be spending up to 6 days away at a time on the boat as well, according to the commentary.

 

[Fire99]

I've seen a few Nordhavens (No e.. No capital H.. ) They're not without their problems. I've seen a loooot of hydraulic work going on with one or two. But they are a bit marmite. To me the bigger ones look too much like a fishing trawler that's been converted to a 'cruiser'. The smaller ones 47-early 50's feet look like the little cartoon tug boat as they seem about as high as they are long. A slightly different take on long distance cruising but I'd take a Fleming (new or used) over one because if you're going to spend a loooong time onboard, the interior comfort has gotta be top quality or it'll grate on you.

 

[Alicatt]

MV Dirona's world tour:

 

[Lodestone]

I've seen a few Nordhavens (No e.. No capital H.. ) They're not without their problems. I've seen a loooot of hydraulic work going on with one or two. But they are a bit marmite. To me the bigger ones look too much like a fishing trawler that's been converted to a 'cruiser'. The smaller ones 47-early 50's feet look like the little cartoon tug boat as they seem about as high as they are long. A slightly different take on long distance cruising but I'd take a Fleming (new or used) over one because if you're going to spend a loooong time onboard, the interior comfort has gotta be top quality or it'll grate on you.

The Flemings are much less tupperware in appearance but I think most trawler styles lack inspiration in the interiors, especially the saloons. Maybe they have evolved to a point of diminishing returns. Having spent £4M it is still hard to break the 4 cabin space barrier.

It is clear that Nordhavn look after their owners extremely well. It is also clear that Nordhavn's take the weather too.

Having watched the relatively old Youtube of their Atlantic rally it was the stabilisers that gave the most jip...still only 2 vessels out of the fleet.

The main advantage with a Fleming is with their particular combo of twin, equal engines you can get a swift turn of speed out of them. An advantage to close distance in an emergency perhaps...or to get to that fruit de mer before the kitchen shuts.

 

[Lodestone]

"The smaller ones 47-early 50's feet look like the little cartoon tug boat"

Yes they look like the Benchies (benchmarks) that 3D printer geeks churn out.

 

[Greg2]

Always liked the practicality, solid build and seaworthiness of Nordhavn but only ever been on one at Boatshows. The interiors always seemed okay to me but haven’t been on one for a while.

Fleming are just sublime, lovely lines and the quality of interiors is excellent. If my numbers came up it would probably be a Fleming.

As an aside SWMBO used to think that what we now have looked liked a kids toy tugboat and it was a non-starter. Times change and she now loves our Hardy Commodore 36….result!
.

 

[billskip]

Some attempt (any ?) to make all that fake wood look a bit woodier in £3+ M boat would be nice
Must have used an entire small oil field to produce enough plastic laminate get that effect. ?
Yes, it can cross oceans, but why would you want to do 3000 miles wearing a hair shirt.

The skipper will be spending up to 6 days away at a time on the boat as well, according to the commentary.

Just a quick glance at the Fleming 85

And the Nordhavn 86

 

[harvey38]

For me, it would have to be a Grand Banks Europa.

I couldn't afford a Fleming but a GB might just be possible one day.

 

[Bilgediver]

Have always worshipped these boats from afar.
Then in moment of weakness watched one of Aquaholics walkrounds.
Loved the simplicity and ease of maintainance, the built in redundancy , engines controlled by Bowden cables, mechanical fuel injectors. M,mmm.
O my God the interiors were hideous, it looked to have been finished with B&M Fablon and cramped or what.
The tugs I used to work on looked nicer.
Just saying.
It will a shiney blingy Gin Palace for me when the bloke I bought my Bitcoins from comes out of jail.

They sound like great boats . One of our club members family have one. Sailed it back from Victoria BC to Europe via The Panama Canal. Oh well we can but dream. BC Ferries gets me around out there and allows me to see The Salish Sea and beyond.

 

[oldgit]

For me, it would have to be a Grand Banks Europa.

I couldn't afford a Fleming but a GB might just be possible one day.

OK OK might be able to put up with that one

 

[Fire99]

Always liked the practicality, solid build and seaworthiness of Nordhavn but only ever been on one at Boatshows. The interiors always seemed okay to me but haven’t been on one for a while.

Fleming are just sublime, lovely lines and the quality of interiors is excellent. If my numbers came up it would probably be a Fleming.

As an aside SWMBO used to think that what we now have looked liked a kids toy tugboat and it was a non-starter. Times change and she now loves our Hardy Commodore 36….result!
.

For me I've seen both the Fleming and Nordhaven in the 'flesh' (or GRP) and I don't doubt the Nordhaven's abilities but it's a jarring thing to look at.
I'm a touch biased about Fleming because I had a walk around of one in Southampton and the salesman was happy to sit down and chat about Flemings and even my Trader so ok I'm about 3.5million quid short of a new Fleming at the moment but I don't forget good sales treatment. (That was a couple of years ago)
And the little features on the Fleming like the leather hangers to protect the boat from the fender ropes plus the top grade interior really endears me to them..

Once again I guess it depends what your actual cruising area is going to be. I've seen a Fleming 65 that's done 60,000 miles!! But I'll guess if you really want to be out in the roughest stuff (instead of winding up the twin engines on the Fleming and heading for a sheltered haven) then I guess the Nordhaven will be your friend..

I still struggle to understand the asymmetric deck layout though. Asking a silly question but what happens when you want to moor up port side too if there is no side deck that side.?

 

[NewForester]

For me I've seen both the Fleming and Nordhaven in the 'flesh' (or GRP) and I don't doubt the Nordhaven's abilities but it's a jarring thing to look at.
I'm a touch biased about Fleming because I had a walk around of one in Southampton and the salesman was happy to sit down and chat about Flemings and even my Trader so ok I'm about 3.5million quid short of a new Fleming at the moment but I don't forget good sales treatment. (That was a couple of years ago)
And the little features on the Fleming like the leather hangers to protect the boat from the fender ropes plus the top grade interior really endears me to them..

Once again I guess it depends what your actual cruising area is going to be. I've seen a Fleming 65 that's done 60,000 miles!! But I'll guess if you really want to be out in the roughest stuff (instead of winding up the twin engines on the Fleming and heading for a sheltered haven) then I guess the Nordhaven will be your friend..

I still struggle to understand the asymmetric deck layout though. Asking a silly question but what happens when you want to moor up port side too if there is no side deck that side.?

I too am a few million short of a new Fleming and I also had a look around the Fleming at the Southampton Boat Show a little while back. They only let two couples on at a time. Two gripes.

First, the salesman stood eating his sandwiches in the galley and we were too polite to ask him to move. I am a salesman: if you are having your lunch get off the boat! A big investment has been made to get the boat to the show and you need to allow people to imagine themselves on their own boat. My wife would have liked to have stood in the galley to get feel for what it would have been like working there. And most of us need the wife's approval.

Second gripe was that the other couple on the Fleming the same time as us asked about access to the engine and but the salesman wouldn't them to see how easy (or not) that was. I also wanted to know what that was like and I imagine that that would be a question for any serious buyer considering voyages of some distance.

On a different note, I was watching a video of Jim Davidson talking about his Princess yacht and out of the blue he asked the interviewer "Fleming or Nordhavn?". The interviewer responded in a slightly dismissive way saying that they are deslgned for different purposes and was not a fair comparison as the Nordhavn is designed to cross oceans and the Fleming is more of a coastal cruiser which you would not want to cross the Atlantic in. I bet that 99.9% of Nordhavn mileage is coastal work, and that at 7 knots you "could" cross the Atlantic on a larger Fleming. So in reality they are overlapping circles and that Davidson's question was a reasonable one.

 

[billskip]

bet that 99.9% of Nordhavn mileage is coastal work

Highly likely, according to my understanding the Nordhavn Atlantic rally most of the smaller Nordhavn's didn't have the fuel capacity so the larger (86?) acted as a supply vessel...
Also I dont see that many owners would be doing many trans Atlantic crossings, but would possibley coastal hop around the world with minimal long distances.

Bottom line really is it's the preference of the owner, each of us surly buys what we want, not what someone else thinks is better.

 

[Fire99]

I too am a few million short of a new Fleming and I also had a look around the Fleming at the Southampton Boat Show a little while back. They only let two couples on at a time. Two gripes.

First, the salesman stood eating his sandwiches in the galley and we were too polite to ask him to move. I am a salesman: if you are having your lunch get off the boat! A big investment has been made to get the boat to the show and you need to allow people to imagine themselves on their own boat. My wife would have liked to have stood in the galley to get feel for what it would have been like working there. And most of us need the wife's approval.

Second gripe was that the other couple on the Fleming the same time as us asked about access to the engine and but the salesman wouldn't them to see how easy (or not) that was. I also wanted to know what that was like and I imagine that that would be a question for any serious buyer considering voyages of some distance.

On a different note, I was watching a video of Jim Davidson talking about his Princess yacht and out of the blue he asked the interviewer "Fleming or Nordhavn?". The interviewer responded in a slightly dismissive way saying that they are deslgned for different purposes and was not a fair comparison as the Nordhavn is designed to cross oceans and the Fleming is more of a coastal cruiser which you would not want to cross the Atlantic in. I bet that 99.9% of Nordhavn mileage is coastal work, and that at 7 knots you "could" cross the Atlantic on a larger Fleming. So in reality they are overlapping circles and that Davidson's question was a reasonable one.

Isn't it funny how a different salesman (or woman) experience can really shape the whole boat experience. I'm guessing the guy I chatted to wasn't the same one as you as this chap was very decent giving up quite a lot of time, knowing I had no intention of buying one in the foreseeable future..

Wasn't that Nick Burnham of Aquaholic 'fame' who did the interview with Jim Davidson? I agree they are quite different boats but actually their function really does overlap between the Nordhaven and the Fleming. Yeah I think at the extreme end we could debate which would handle the ultimate worst sea conditions etc but they are both CE certified as Category A vessels with extended range at displacement (Nordhaven) or near displacement (Fleming) speeds.

Another factor is, usually the crew give up way before the boat does. With either vessel they may theoretically be able to handle very big seas but I wonder how many people who crew or are guests on them would sign up for the experience?

In reality I think Fleming and Nordhaven are just two different angles at tackling mostly the same cruising requirements.

 

[NewForester]

Isn't it funny how a different salesman (or woman) experience can really shape the whole boat experience.

Yep! When I teach my younger sales teams, one of the things I pass on from an old-timer who taught me is, "Manufacturing minus Sales = Scrap". And that Sales is equivalent to the 4 square inches of tyre rubber keeping a car on the role. After all the investment in getting the product to market, Sales is your ultimate interface with your customers.

 

[Fire99]

Yep! When I teach my younger sales teams, one of the things I pass on from an old-timer who taught me is, "Manufacturing minus Sales = Scrap". And that Sales is equivalent to the 4 square inches of tyre rubber keeping a car on the role. After all the investment in getting the product to market, Sales is your ultimate interface with your customers.

I like that. I think a lot of people have lost the understanding of actually respecting their customers / potential customers. Not to mention both as a supplier and a customer, I've had some great chats over the years. You can never have too many friends in business I say.

 

[oldgit]

Having always thought that the whole ethos of the Nordhavn range was a nod towards durability and practicality, was rather suprised just how squashed and cramped everthing was, not just accomodation but regards getting at the engines and generators.
Some of which would need a handy "Hobbit" to get at in hurry.
Perhaps a bit less filling every corner with storage and supplementary accomodation and bit more headroom and space around vital machinery.
Feel certain have seen better and more easy access to engines from some boats where the likely owner has no idea where the engines are and cares less.