Non Boating Thread (sorry)

[TheBoatman]

I have noticed that an awful lot of people seem to get very upset with the way in which politicians, both ours and those the US behave. This is a complete anathema to me.

Did anyone see a programme on the box in the last couple of days where they were discussing why politicians are regarded along with car salesmen and journalists as being the last people we trust (sorry Kim). They, the politicians have now set up “focus groups” to try to understand why this should be so and why we (the general public) are turning away from politics and voting.

It still has not occurred to our esteemed (butthead) members of Parliament that because over the years they have lied, cheated, spun, sold out, miss-laid, wasted, squandered our money, heritage and anything else you care to name all in the pursuit of personal gain, that this may have something to do with it?

They seem oblivious to the fact that when asked a question and then refuse to answer it, that they may just come across as somewhat insincere and shallow.

I mean are we truly surprised to find out that the latest statement on Iraq was taken from a 12-year-old thesis. I for one am not surprised in the least at the antics of this lot!

Why won’t they allow a box on the voting slips, which says “None of the above” so that people like me can register my dissatisfaction with the whole lot of them? If I don’t agree with any of them why should I vote?
I refuse to vote again until such a box appears, after all its rather like being asked to vote on which way you would prefer to die, by shooting or stabbing.
Excuse me but I would prefer not to die therefore I won’t vote for it.

The only problem is they realise that such a box would lead to a mass denunciation of their policies and they could never live with that. They would prefer to carry on with the status quo i.e. “you voted for me therefore you must agree with me”

Well that’s the rant over with, no doubt you will realise that I hate ALL politicians with a passion because having caused the problem in the first place they are the first into the shelter and they will ask why your not out there fighting for Queen and Country and how un-patriotic you are for not doing their bidding?
One last thought, after they have started World War 3 out of the dust and rubble will appear the politicians with no one to govern because all us numb nuts would have been killed?

 

[jimi]

This also is a hobby horse of mine. If you spoil your vote this is counted and I seriously was considering mounting a spoil you vote campaign last general election. If there were a significant amount of votes cast in this way it should send a loud nd clear message. ie there are enough people here that care enough to take the trouble to spoil their votes but who do not wish to vote for a party.

LOUD & CLEAR would be the message! And I'm sure if people understood what message they were sending in such a channel it would probably form a majority.

Jim

 

[TheBoatman]

Jimi
I hadn't thought of that one. Maybe we should start a campain "spoil your vote to register your dissatifaction" May work?
I wonder what others would think.

 

[davidhand]

Beats the hell out of "don't vote it only encourages them".

 

[Twister_Ken]

Spoil your vote

They'd probably arrest you for defacing government property

 

[tcm]

Re: ah but (anti media)

I see your points. However, unlike the program in question, I'm afraid that I do feel that the general lowering in standard of politicians and increase in invasiveness/mockery against them has ratchetted down the politician to one with no need for great brain, no need for good ideas, just to look pretty and dodge questions on the telly- and that the media (mostly telly) is indeed partly to blame for this. John Humpheys of radio 4 is very anti this.

But media frequerntly barrages a politician with question such as if this happened, what then? and in even a simple world this is unrealsitic to answer truthfuly and entirely all the time. Kinnock tried to handle things head on, so when trapped with a nuclear question before an elction, he confirmed thathe would never ever press the button. It's this aspectof the current Iraq issue that has totally pased by the uk press- no chanceof any warmongering getting iraqi leaders to back off an arms race since our press will haul up our leaders and extract promises, unravel policy and so on. In many instances, the correctand only answer is - I might do this, but then again I might do that. I'm not telling you right now. Without the press, for example, iraq would simply be facing a buildup on his borders. With the press, he's got access to all the naysayers, demands for more resolutions, doubts frrom the germans/french this morning, and so on.

The voting system works by electing some people, and then they do things. Sure, it's good to have a investigative media. But it doesn't seem very good to have press sitting on everyone's shoulder on the way towards every meeting, every decision, every discussion, asking what if this? What about that? If they say this - surely you'll say that? You can't really seriously be proposing this and that, can you. Our pollls say this, not that.

Ever since Robin Day,more and more media types have been encouraged to have a go at politicians, and only a few politicians have been able to swat them away when appropriate. Perhaps many of these interviewers have become medi personalities themseklves, so that an interview is often "with " then interviewer against the politician - audiences are more sensitive to somebody being rude to Paxman, rather than the other way around. IMho, politicians should tell where journos when to get off, but either won't, or don't, or can't.

 

[jimi]

Re: ah but (anti media)

Think the real question here is whether the electorate have a genuine choice or are in fact disenfranchised by the lack of either credibility or policy choice between the major parties. In that situation I am suggesting that a spoiled vote in fact means "None of the above" rather than not voting which is interpreted as "I do'nt care" or "I'm happy with any of them". I therefore see spoiling the vote as a positive statement of negativity.

 

[Martin_Billings]

I seem to remember in US several thousand years ago that actively spoiling ballot papers was seen as a positive statement rather than simply not bothering to turn up, which was viewed as negative. There was also a tradition of writing in names of would be representatives who were not on the ballot paper.

Re WW3 there is a sobering quote from Einstein on being asked with what weapons it would be fought to which he said that he had no idea but that he knew that WW4 would be fought with sticks and stones.

 

[Mangusta]

Re: ah but (anti media)

As an advanced nation amongst other nations in the advanced world, we the public, have to accept the changing face of politicians who react according to circumstances. The present circumstances are that in the UK, the media is allowed (not permitted) to be invasive and all questioning, that is the way it is. We all want the benefits of greater access to modern technology and communications.

Politician's behaviour hasn't changed that much over the years, they have always been a wide mix of culpable characters, male and female alike, all that we are seeing now is greater exposure of them and they in turn are manipulating the media as much.

Change (for better or worse) will, I believe, come about in time when the career politicians occupy all the seats on both sides of the house and the structure within the respective parliamentary party's has a less idealistic and more professional content. Then we will see more hung parliaments than ever before with a much higher lib/dem content.

 

[Bergman]

Re: ah but (anti media)

Agree with much of what you say, but confused about cause and effect.

Do media appear more intrusive because of low quality politicians who have lots to hide. The relationship is a sort of aggressively symbiotic, politicians crave media attention but object strongly when asked "wrong" questions. Journos need politicians to write about but don't want to upset the wrong ones (those going up) too much.

Don't think it fair to criticise media because some journalists are able to run intellectual rings around some politicians, rather question capability of politicians or elect journalists - Paxman for PM?

Certainly no sympathy for Kinnock, he got what he deserved. Take a step back, spent lots of time and money before election running around country asking people what policy they wanted and then tried to produce some sort of fudge that satisfied everyone. He was then clearly exposed as being devoid of leadership capabilty and of original ideas.

Thinking back to miner's strike Scargill had no problems dealing with very aggressive media attention, once spoke to one radio journo who his friends had thrown over a wall, I suppose thats one way to deal with difficult questions. Only journo who took him on and came out on top was Bernard Dineen from YP - excellent man.

I just find it hard to sympathise with politicians I suppose

 

[Ohdrat]

Quote "It still has not occurred to our esteemed (butthead) members of Parliament that because over the years they have lied, cheated, spun, sold out, miss-laid, wasted, squandered our money, heritage and anything else you care to name all in the pursuit of personal gain, that this may have something to do with it?"

very apt miss spelling .. forum equiv of a Freudian Slip perhaps?? ho ho

 

[wishbone]

When I see’s yer politician, I see’s a public school boy sponger, funny hand shake mob looking after each others back! Telling us don’t do this, don’t do that. Looking down their nose at you, but putting a common face on to lull us into thinking they are one of us,
Don’t you believe it! They are all looking after no1. They will lie, cheat, manipulate and s**g to hold their position on the gravy train.

Wishbone
“wot do I know! I’m just yer common Cockney”

 

[Peppermint]

Lovely rant BUT!

What do you think they really want. You to like them and watch what they do with abmiration. Not a bit of it. The more they can remove the political process from real people and the more indifference they can stir up, (Thinks can you stir up indifference?) among the rest of us the more they can do as they like. Note how your civil liberties are going down the gurggler because of a few terrorists. Who's winning?