No VAT Payable on EU Boats

[Baggywrinkle]

Adriatic is promising due to Croatia being non-Schengen at the moment. Croatia have fulfilled the criteria to join but there are political issues preventing that happening until late 2022 at the earliest ... Croatia's Schengen accession is opposed by the Netherlands, Germany and France among others.

Presidency of the Council of the EU is currently Portugal, and Portugal don't want to interfere with the issue, so no vote on Croatia joining in the first part of 2021, then comes Slovenia, which assumes EU presidency in the second half of 2021 and they will try to stop Croatia's Schengen aspirations due to ongoing border issues ... then comes France who are opposed, and finally comes Czechia in July 2022 .... this is the first point where a vote on Croatia joining is really possible IMO.

PS: Just to clarify, Schengen only affects to the 90/180 rules on UK citizens - Schengen is irrelevant to the boat.

 

[Alicatt]

Schengen has nothing to do with the customs and VAT areas, UK was not in the Schengen area and you still had VAT paid status up until 31/12/2020.

 

[ShaneAtSea]

Schengen has nothing to do with the customs and VAT areas, UK was not in the Schengen area and you still had VAT paid status up until 31/12/2020.

Spot on.

Schengen is about Visas not VAT

 

[Hurricane]

If you were looking for somewhere to "reset" a boat's 16 month TA rule (which was the context of the OP).
Then North Africa is only 130 miles south of Ibiza or 150 miles south of Mallorca.

 

[Solent Sailor]

If you were looking for somewhere to "reset" a boat's 16 month TA rule (which was the context of the OP).
Then North Africa is only 130 miles south of Ibiza or 150 miles south of Mallorca.

I hear Libya is delightful at this time of year...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

How old is your map? Is not Croatia in the Customs Union now?

Correct. I dont know how old Portofino's map but it must be older than 2013 because I was in Croatia on the very day the country joined the EU in that year. And Schengen has bugger all to do with this issue as well. To qualify for non VAT status within the EU, the boat needs to be taken out of EU waters and to record that action it is best to visit a non EU country and obtain an invoice for berthing or fuel

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Just move , pass through Montenegro on one of your summer jaunts .
Principle of Italian Adriatic to former Yugoslavia new states applies , just find an none EU one .
Every time you leave the EU , you effectively ( with necessary evidence) re set the 18 m clock .It’s not as if you have to wait until 17 months 3 weeks to leave and re enter .
If your boats was in the Adriatic you would be cruising that E coast annually .Fuels cheaper too in Montenegro so there’s another incentive to breeze across .Mind you a fast boat would be handy.
The none schengen status of Croatia means you time in there stops the EU 90 in 180 clock .Schenegen “ shuffle “

You could keep your boat there and nip S into none EU for VAT TI rules as well .

You've missed one other possibility. Bosnia owns a tiny sliver of coastline at Neum. If youre based in Croatia, Neum would likely be more convenient ex EU port of call than schlapping south to Montenegro and having the PITA of checking in and out of Croatia at Cavtat

 

[Portofino]

You've missed one other possibility. Bosnia owns a tiny sliver of coastline at Neum. If youre based in Croatia, Neum would likely be more convenient ex EU port of call than schlapping south to Montenegro and having the PITA of checking in and out of Croatia at Cavtat

Quote myself here 2nd sentence post #19
“Principle of Italian Adriatic to former Yugoslavia new states applies , just find an none EU one .”

Thought that was an all inclusive way of not listing them ?

That neck of the woods the general Adriatic wether East or West ( Italy ) depending on flight Fq and proposed usage feels like a Med magnet now for Brits post Brexit for those who desire to take full advantage of the new found 3P status at there next boat purchase.
Time will tell .
As well as the VAT angle theres the 90:in 180 for those with more free time .Separate issue sure .
But combined every day out of Schengan ( inc Croatia ) means your clock stops for your EU day count .
So you could arrive in Schengan Adriatic Italy burn 4/5 days in and arounf your home port before bombing East , doss around for 6 /7 weeks outside the EU then return , burn a few more days in the EU and fly back to the U.K. having only used a week in 2 months away in the EU .
Croatia does a 90 in 180 visa free and you will need to I assume check out the “ holiday “ requirements of the other ex Yugoslavia Adriatic states .
Never been but reading cruse reports on other forums they say it’s like Italy because of the vol of Italian s going over in the summer .

So future U.K. retires with a decent boat could have a jolly long season in the Adriatic and if bought carefully avoid VAT on the boat .

Have a feeling the Balearic hassle of reaching Africa and all that goes with that will be too much for some .
I have friends who drive from Suffolk to Croatia ( dogs ) to boat .Not sure how viable driving is to the Balearics if flights are unviable.

 

[Alicatt]

My eldest son takes his little boatie to Croatia, he keeps a caravan in a resort there, traveling from the EU does not seem to have any problems.

 

[Ningaloo]

Maybe the best option is to buy an ex-Charter boat from Croatia? These are usually sold when they get to 5 years old and usually VAT free.
They may be cosmetically less than perfect, but the better charter operators do look after the boats maintenance wise.

I like the look of Tunisia which has a couple of good marinas for overwinter to get out of Schengen and take a EU VAT reset.

 

[Hurricane]

I've been searching for weeks, trying to find out how personal items can be taken into the EU by a UK resident.
With or without paying VAT.
I take stuff back and forth to/from the boat in a small box trailer using Brittany Ferries to Santander or Bilbao.
I'm trying to find out the processes involved if VAT is required.
Any declarations required etc
I've also been wondering if these personal items can be taken in/out under TA rules.
For example can someone going on holiday using the family car take a paddle board etc assuming that they will be bringing it back.
I'm sure that TA rules exist for this kind of thing but what are the processes? - any paperwork etc.

But, in relation to this thread, I found this document which should put the TA on boats matter to bed.
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/sites/taxation/files/rules_for_private_boats-faq_en.pdf

 

[Cheery]

Going off that document then you could sail from Malta to Greece and by virtue of having sailed into international waters you would have reset the clock?


Can you have another period of Temporary Importation?
How long must you wait?
Yes, you are not limited to a single period of temporary import. You can sail the yacht out of the EU and when you came back again a new period of temporary admission can begin. The customs rules do not provide for a 'minimum period' during which the goods must remain outside of the customs territory of the Union.

 

[Hurricane]

Going off that document then you could sail from Malta to Greece and by virtue of having sailed into international waters you would have reset the clock?

The same applies to any passage that goes more than 12 miles off EU shores but I think you would have to prove it properly.

 

[st599]

I've been searching for weeks, trying to find out how personal items can be taken into the EU by a UK resident.
With or without paying VAT.
I take stuff back and forth to/from the boat in a small box trailer using Brittany Ferries to Santander or Bilbao.
I'm trying to find out the processes involved if VAT is required.
Any declarations required etc
I've also been wondering if these personal items can be taken in/out under TA rules.
For example can someone going on holiday using the family car take a paddle board etc assuming that they will be bringing it back.
I'm sure that TA rules exist for this kind of thing but what are the processes? - any paperwork etc.

Temporary admission
'Temporary admission' allows goods to be brought in temporarily to the Union with total or partial relief from import duty. Examples of where this procedure might be used would be in the case of goods imported for purposes such as exhibiting at a trade fair or taking part in a music show. In some cases the completion of customs formalities is not required (e.g. temporary admission of means of transport).

The temporary admission is subject to the following conditions:

* No alteration of the goods is intended, other than changes brought about by normal depreciation due to the use made of them;
* The goods can be clearly identified, unless abuses are unlikely given the nature of the goods or the intended use;
* The holder of the procedure is established outside the customs territory of the Union, except where otherwise provided. For instance, natural persons who have their habitual residence in the customs territory of the Union and work for an employer who is established outside the territory can benefit from total relief from import duty in respect of means of transport used by them (as owner or as renter) for commercial or private purposes;
* The overall customs requirements for are met; and
* A guarantee is provided if required.

An ATA or CPD carnet can be used for temporary admission.

In case of partial relief from import duty, the amount of duty to be paid is set at 3 % of the amount of import duty which would have been payable on those goods had they been released for free circulation on the date they were declared for the temporary admission procedure. This amount would be payable for every month or fraction of a month during which the goods have been placed under the above mentioned procedure.

The maximum period during which goods may remain under this procedure cannot last for more than 24 months. Nevertheless, the time-limit in many cases is even shorter.


Specific use - Taxation and Customs Union - European Commission

It seems there are special rules for vehicles (6 months) and vessels (18 months). Looking at some of the guides by various yacht companies and organisations, the 18 months is for a vessel that turns up from sea, not being trailered.

For other stuff, it seems to suggest the utter horror that is an ATA Carnet.

 

[Hurricane]

It seems there are special rules for vehicles (6 months) and vessels (18 months). Looking at some of the guides by various yacht companies and organisations, the 18 months is for a vessel that turns up from sea, not being trailered.

For other stuff, it seems to suggest the utter horror that is an ATA Carnet.

Thanks for that - I think Iv'e read it though - amongst loads of other stuff.
One thing that puzzles me though is "how do I pay the VAT on the private goods that I'm carrying".
Everything is about commercially selling the goods on.
Nothing about paying VAT on your own private goods.
There does seem to be allowances but no procedure if you are outside those allowances.
Return to the UK should be easier because I think the value of the private stuff that I usually take home is less than the UK allowances.

We have started a group at Sant Carles to find out the facts - maybe paying for legal advice.
Quite a lot of yachties in SC take their sails home for cleaning and repairs.
I guess this will have to stop but, back to the point - how do you pay the VAT if you actually want to move your goods?
The whole thing baffles me.

 

[DavidJ]

how do you pay the VAT if you actually want to move your goods?
The whole thing baffles me.

Isn‘t it a simple case of turning up at Calais, declaring to customs that, in my case, I have £2000 worth of new boat covers and they will happily take £400 off you. The same as turning up at Heathrow with a £2000 watch you bought in Dubai.

 

[st599]

Thanks for that - I think Iv'e read it though - amongst loads of other stuff.
One thing that puzzles me though is "how do I pay the VAT on the private goods that I'm carrying".
Everything is about commercially selling the goods on.
Nothing about paying VAT on your own private goods.
There does seem to be allowances but no procedure if you are outside those allowances.
Return to the UK should be easier because I think the value of the private stuff that I usually take home is less than the UK allowances.

We have started a group at Sant Carles to find out the facts - maybe paying for legal advice.
Quite a lot of yachties in SC take their sails home for cleaning and repairs.
I guess this will have to stop but, back to the point - how do you pay the VAT if you actually want to move your goods?
The whole thing baffles me.

By back and forth, I thought you meant temporary admission.

For TA on a Carnet, you have to check the goods in and out of each Customs area you visit. So for a work trip to Switzerland, I'd normally visit Heathrow and Geneva Customs on the way out and the way back. (Allowing at least 3 hours for each). They check the goods against the Carnet list. No VAT to pay, but if you fail to get it stamped properly, you lose the security bond. It also means that everything that goes out on the carnet has to come back at the same time.

For importing to EU, presumably you reclaim Vat at UK Customs then pay Vat and any duty at Customs in the EU.

 

[Hurricane]

Isn‘t it a simple case of turning up at Calais, declaring to customs that, in my case, I have £2000 worth of new boat covers and they will happily take £400 off you. The same as turning up at Heathrow with a £2000 watch you bought in Dubai.

I don't know - is it that simple?

 

[Hurricane]

For importing to EU, presumably you reclaim Vat at UK Customs then pay Vat and any duty at Customs in the EU.

I've not seen anywhere where you can reclaim VAT - in fact, I think I read somewhere that, as an individual, you can't reclaim VAT.
I think I read that, in order to get a VAT free item into the EU, the original supplier has to actually send it themselves.
The item is then supplied by the supplier free of VAT and the courier is made responsible for collecting the VAT in the destination country.

So, if you are travelling with your items (all previously UK VAT paid), what is the process is of actually paying the VAT in the EU - is it as you pass through customs or do you have to declare and pay in advance?

I'm also talking about personal items (maybe those that you have had for years) being transported with you in your car - backwards and forwards between the UK and the EU.
It seems that these items can be subject to VAT.
A yachtie's sail for his boat is quite a good example - quite a valuable item but yachties often bring them home for cleaning/repair and take them back early in the season.

 

[st599]

I've not seen anywhere where you can reclaim VAT - in fact, I think I read somewhere that, as an individual, you can't reclaim VAT.
I think I read that, in order to get a VAT free item into the EU, the original supplier has to actually send it themselves.
The item is then supplied by the supplier free of VAT and the courier is made responsible for collecting the VAT in the destination country.

So, if you are travelling with your items (all previously UK VAT paid), what is the process is of actually paying the VAT in the EU - is it as you pass through customs or do you have to declare and pay in advance?

I'm also talking about personal items (maybe those that you have had for years) being transported with you in your car - backwards and forwards between the UK and the EU.
It seems that these items can be subject to VAT.
A yachtie's sail for his boat is quite a good example - quite a valuable item but yachties often bring them home for cleaning/repair and take them back early in the season.

If you're temporarily importing an item, you can Carnet it. Ask your local Chamber of Commerce for details/cost. Hopefully there'll be a non-Carnet route as they're expensive and the bond is annoying.

If not, you go down the red route and customs deal with the import.