zoidberg
Well-Known Member
From another forum....
Remarkable only that it is being remarked on.
Thoughts?
Remarkable only that it is being remarked on.
Thoughts?
No GPS? No problem.....
- Thread starter zoidberg
- Start date
zoidberg
Well-Known Member
I'm aware - and we lot oughta too - that a bunch of near-naked almost-savages managed to find Hawaii, and a whole bunch of other Pacific island groups, just about any time they felt like going sea-wandering.
And they managed to do that so regularly and reliably that they colonised said island groups, and taught their children how to manage at sea for days on end without GPS, without mag compasses, without logs, radar, Loran, radio.... nor even microwave ovens.
And some of their great-grandchildren are again doing much the same.
And they managed to do that so regularly and reliably that they colonised said island groups, and taught their children how to manage at sea for days on end without GPS, without mag compasses, without logs, radar, Loran, radio.... nor even microwave ovens.
And some of their great-grandchildren are again doing much the same.
Stemar
Well-Known Member
In these days of GPS that gives a position accurate to a few feet, such skills are easily allowed to become rusty. BUT, in these days of GPS spoofing and jamming, they're even more necessary than ever, especially for warships.
All the same, I'd bet that the navigator breathed a quiet sigh of relief when the right bit of California came into view on time - assuming it did.
All the same, I'd bet that the navigator breathed a quiet sigh of relief when the right bit of California came into view on time - assuming it did.
Boathook
Well-Known Member
That gives the navigator nearly 800 miles of coastline to "hit" if they were just aiming for California rather that a particular part,
johnalison
Well-Known Member
Our daughter had a boy-friend in the navy during the first Gulf War. As well as requesting Hobnobs from the folks at home, I believe that a GPS was borrowed from a yachting source. I didn't get GPS until 1999, following Decca, but I suppose that yachtsmen must have had them in '91.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's remarkable at all. Many years ago I was talking to a guy who'd done Atlantic Convoys. They regularly crossed without any sight of the sky all the way.
Doing it with Astro is far easier.
The Vikings managed it without knowing their longitude at all.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
Reckon you're about right on the swap over. Before 1994 I never sailed on a boat with GPS. After I never sailed with one without. (Except one trip before smartphones on a newly refurbed boat with no electronics.)
Of course there was SA.
I have the vaguest recollections of Decca and my recollection is it never worked when you needed it.
Biggles Wader
Well-Known Member
The RN had very good GPS by 1991 as did almost every commercial/navy vessel. Different story when I first went to sea in the 1970s. Offshore navigation was all done the old way then and, not so well known now, we didn't have universal radio contact everywhere. No AIS of course and ships still used to disappear without trace occasionally.
S04
Well-Known Member
We had Decca, Loran-C and of course SINS (in boats). The first 2 didn't offer worldwide coverage so if that's what you meant then I'd agree.
DanTribe
Well-Known Member
I sailed a Vivacity 650 with a friend from Crouch to Ijmuiden in 1976. We had a Pilot Pal RDF which didn't help much but we reasoned that if we missed our target we would hit Europe somewhere. As dawn broke we saw planes taking off so guessed that was Schiphol. It was but could easily have been Rotterdam!
veshengro
Well-Known Member
This discussion reminds me of sitting in the local Laundrette a few days ago reading a Newspaper which was probably a week old, but just a fraction more entertaining than watching the washing go round.
I read a few lines that said the inshore Life Boat had escorted a local Motor Boat that had lost power to it's navigation system and become lost while attempting to find the Marina...
Not criticising, each to their own, but to get lost in a well lit fully marked major harbour? Main shipping channel buoyage, leading lights etc: indicates to me that there was probably nothing on board the vessel to assist navigation, except the chart plotter. Probably not even a free local sailing advice pamphlet given away by the Harbour Authority. No charts, no almanac.
Good visibility, although dark, and fair weather. Made me think, is this a rare occurrence or do boat owners really gaze at electronics so intently that they don't recognise navigation marks and lights in their own harbours?
I read a few lines that said the inshore Life Boat had escorted a local Motor Boat that had lost power to it's navigation system and become lost while attempting to find the Marina...
Not criticising, each to their own, but to get lost in a well lit fully marked major harbour? Main shipping channel buoyage, leading lights etc: indicates to me that there was probably nothing on board the vessel to assist navigation, except the chart plotter. Probably not even a free local sailing advice pamphlet given away by the Harbour Authority. No charts, no almanac.
Good visibility, although dark, and fair weather. Made me think, is this a rare occurrence or do boat owners really gaze at electronics so intently that they don't recognise navigation marks and lights in their own harbours?
Dutch01527
Well-Known Member
As a young Merchant Navy Cadet I once crossed the Atlantic to Brazil with cloud for the last 2000 ish miles. Before GPS so positions were estimated by dead reckoning. There was a little competition going between the Navigating Officers and Cadets. All estimates were within 30 miles of our actual position on land fall, the best beening a 16 year old first trip cadet and the worst being the Captain which was a source of great mirth that the Captain accepted with good grace.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Missing page 2 of the article - which says that of the 10 US warships which set off bravely on this daunting voyage, the other 9 ships …..
Boathook
Well-Known Member
Had decca on board for a quite a few years. Found it very good and always seemed to work and give a reasonable fix, especially when compared with out DR fixes !
Got rid of the decca when they started to turn off the chains forcing everyone onto loran ? and GPS.
Davy_S
Well-Known Member
I have the vaguest recollections of Decca and my recollection is it never worked when you needed it!
It did work and was very accurate, but you could only do a repeat fix at the same time of day you took the first fix, the Decca lanes could be a quarter of a mile out in the evening, I used to fish wrecks using Decca, I was very pleased when the first GPS units could get differential corrections.
It did work and was very accurate, but you could only do a repeat fix at the same time of day you took the first fix, the Decca lanes could be a quarter of a mile out in the evening, I used to fish wrecks using Decca, I was very pleased when the first GPS units could get differential corrections.
DownWest
Well-Known Member
Mentioned it before, but Sardinia to St Tropez with a compass and a school atlas, plus a trail log, so dead reckoning, after five days at sea with light winds, bang on the nose... Quite literally, in the morning mist, thinking we must be somewhere nere, saw a lighthouse. Exactly the spot I had in mind. We did have a radio, a Pilot Pal, but no info on where the stations were. Tried one, but it put us inland..
Curiously, the log gave exactly the A to B distance. Quite a lot of the time, due to the light winds, it was at quite a down angle. And, one morning, it was slack. Something bit the spinner off in the night. Fitted the spare and carried on.
Curiously, the log gave exactly the A to B distance. Quite a lot of the time, due to the light winds, it was at quite a down angle. And, one morning, it was slack. Something bit the spinner off in the night. Fitted the spare and carried on.
DownWest
Well-Known Member
On another trip, tried Consol (sp) bit vauge...
Rappey
Well-Known Member
It may soon be "no gps, no problem" as it gets superseded by quantom navigation.
GPS-free quantum navigation | Q-CTRL
GPS-free quantum navigation | Q-CTRL
Biggles Wader
Well-Known Member
In about 1975 we loaded a Decca system in Rotterdam and used it around to Hamburg and the Baltic then across to Liverpool where it was taken off. It wasn't regarded as very useful IIRC. We never carried Loran C and we always tried to remain afloat so SINS was for others. We did still have RDF. Offshore/ocean stuff was very traditional and we still streamed a Walker Log which was surprisingly accurate. One ship I was on had a leadline and weights for soundings though I never saw it used! Everything changes and sometimes very rapidly.
MontyMariner
Well-Known Member
Oh contraire, it got me out of trouble one dark foggy night sailing from Cherbourg to St PP.
Left Ch on a bright sunny afternoon, got to the Cap and into thick fog which persisted all the way to St PP. I had DECCA waypoints from previous trips so followed them down, turned right at the last WP and saw the glow of the harbour lights. Relief doesn't describe it.