No GPS? No problem.....

[westhinder]

Back when we used to religiously keep a log we only filled in the destination once we had actually arrived as outside of rallies quiet often something would happen to change our plans such as weather meaning we pushed on or cut short our intended trip,

Probably why I feel the loss of flexibility in having to book ahead quite keenly

That’s what we still do, old habits…
And we prefer cruising grounds where booking ahead is not necessary
The skipper with whom I learned to sail installed a Decca navigator after a few years, but he draped a towel over it and we were only allowed to look at it to check our DR. It had a nasty habit of showing a blinking red LED for ‘unreliable position’ when you needed it most. Still we found Scotland and our way back home.
Oh yes, there was an Autohelm somewhere in a locker, but it used too much current, so was only used when motoring.

 

[zoidberg]

A passing thought....

I'm aware that Navigating Officers on HM submarines could sometimes use their periscopes to acquire a 'vertical sextant angle' on a star here and there, and thus a position line/LOP or two, and hence a 'fix' to determine which Norwegian or Icelandic fiord they were hiding in - and even which end.

But they couldn't use their posh Barr&Stroud optical instrument to get a 'horizontal sextant angle plus a bearing' fix. And even rocking their 'sextant' back and forth while bringing the sun down to the horizon was tricky - involving the whole boat's crew running forward, then aft, then forward again.... antil they were knackered.

It was a whole lot easier on a Vulcan!

 

[S04]

A passing thought....

I'm aware that Navigating Officers on HM submarines could sometimes use their periscopes to acquire a 'vertical sextant angle' on a star here and there, and thus a position line/LOP or two, and hence a 'fix' to determine which Norwegian or Icelandic fiord they were hiding in - and even which end.

But they couldn't use their posh Barr&Stroud optical instrument to get a 'horizontal sextant angle plus a bearing' fix. And even rocking their 'sextant' back and forth while bringing the sun down to the horizon was tricky - involving the whole boat's crew running forward, then aft, then forward again.... antil they were knackered.

It was a whole lot easier on a Vulcan!

A couple of comments.

The periscope sextant was an artificial horizon type so you never brought the observed celestial object to the real horizon so no rocking. Secondly, we also used to carry a normal sextant (Admiralty pattern 491) which could be used for HSA if required although I can never remember it being used in that manner. I can though only speak of the old P&O boats (no, not the ferries or the cruise ships) during the 1970s.

 

[johnalison]

That’s what we still do, old habits…
And we prefer cruising grounds where booking ahead is not necessary
The skipper with whom I learned to sail installed a Decca navigator after a few years, but he draped a towel over it and we were only allowed to look at it to check our DR. It had a nasty habit of showing a blinking red LED for ‘unreliable position’ when you needed it most. Still we found Scotland and our way back home.
Oh yes, there was an Autohelm somewhere in a locker, but it used too much current, so was only used when motoring.

In retrospect, the old Navstar Decca was pretty expensive. I think I paid something over £400 for mine, and £50 for a discounted repeater, and I think the Phillips Decca was over £600. There were places such as Beachy Head where the fix was very poor, presumably where the lines approached each other, but it could be entertaining retuning to different chains. I once fixed to the Norhumberland chain from Essex and got a position that was only about five miles out. The 20 minutes wait after start-up wouldn't please today's sailors.

 

[Beneteau381]

This discussion reminds me of sitting in the local Laundrette a few days ago reading a Newspaper which was probably a week old, but just a fraction more entertaining than watching the washing go round.
I read a few lines that said the inshore Life Boat had escorted a local Motor Boat that had lost power to it's navigation system and become lost while attempting to find the Marina...

Not criticising, each to their own, but to get lost in a well lit fully marked major harbour? Main shipping channel buoyage, leading lights etc: indicates to me that there was probably nothing on board the vessel to assist navigation, except the chart plotter. Probably not even a free local sailing advice pamphlet given away by the Harbour Authority. No charts, no almanac.
Good visibility, although dark, and fair weather. Made me think, is this a rare occurrence or do boat owners really gaze at electronics so intently that they don't recognise navigation marks and lights in their own harbours?

I remember a few years ago coming in to Pwllheli late one night, black as the hobs of hell, high water, the training wall covered. I’d done it thousands of times in the day BUT I chickened out. Partingtons big security yard light was on pointing towards the entrance, it was blinding, I just couldn’t see the plot in my head. I would t chance it especially since I’d seen a big power boat stuck on the top of the wall a few months back!

 

[veshengro]

Entering any harbour against a blinding sunrise or glaring shore lights is always a real problem, but from the Newspaper article I gathered he was lost. ie: couldn't find the Marina because he didn't know his position because his chart plotter had died.

 

[johnalison]

I remember a few years ago coming in to Pwllheli late one night, black as the hobs of hell, high water, the training wall covered. I’d done it thousands of times in the day BUT I chickened out. Partingtons big security yard light was on pointing towards the entrance, it was blinding, I just couldn’t see the plot in my head. I would t chance it especially since I’d seen a big power boat stuck on the top of the wall a few months back!

Familiarity doesn’t always help. When my boat was new a friend and I took it to Hamble to be shown at SBS and we took a delivery chap as the forecast was grotsome. I wasn’t familiar with the Hamble but John 2.0 told us that he knew it like the back of his hand. We were just approaching the cardinal mark at the entrance at 2 am when it disappeared in the fog and we couldn’t see a blind thing. We did manage to crawl in without incident but I’m afraid my friend and I did rib John a bit about it. This night may have had something to do with my decision to fit radar while I was berthed there.

 

[capnsensible]

I'm a big fan of contour following. But one needs a paper chart and tide tables.

Having practised it with various people masses of times and used the technique for real on quite a few more, I'm confident with it. But it does take a lot of practice.

 

[Frank Holden]

I'm a big fan of contour following. But one needs a paper chart and tide tables.

Having practised it with various people masses of times and used the technique for real on quite a few more, I'm confident with it. But it does take a lot of practice.

Northbound across Biscay a common thing was to use the 100 fathom line and a single sun sight for a fix.

 

[westernman]

In these days of GPS that gives a position accurate to a few feet, such skills are easily allowed to become rusty. BUT, in these days of GPS spoofing and jamming, they're even more necessary than ever, especially for warships.

All the same, I'd bet that the navigator breathed a quiet sigh of relief when the right bit of California came into view on time - assuming it did.

I sailed across from the coast of spain to Minorca a few times. Mostly at night arriving in the morning. It is always very reassuring to see the island come up in front of you - even when using GPS.

 

[Beneteau381]

I'm a big fan of contour following. But one needs a paper chart and tide tables.

Having practised it with various people masses of times and used the technique for real on quite a few more, I'm confident with it. But it does take a lot of practice.

Back in the day, Gib, Jack Peate, Sigma33, day skipper course. Ceuta to Soto Grande for the overnight. Stopped in the bay before for lunch and the fog dropped. I was designated skipper. Jack says, ok what are you going to do? I looked at the chart, there was a contour line due east so I said ok, gently motor out to the contour line, pick it up and go north then when we see the contour line bend from the entrance we should be there! He said ok, what then? I then said turn due west and gently feel our way in following the shallowing. Hmm, ok, take it easy he said. Off we went plus used the log. We got to where I thought we should turn west. Jack said how sure are you? I pulled out my brand new Garmin12, latest dogs rognons, bought at Sibs, never used in anger! His eyes opened, ooh he said let’s have a look at that, he’d never seen one before .
As he looked at we saw the fog open and there was the entrance! The other boat with the girl skipper trainer on stayed where they were! Got in late that night! I was very smug!

 

[capnsensible]

Back in the day, Gib, Jack Peate, Sigma33, day skipper course. Ceuta to Soto Grande for the overnight. Stopped in the bay before for lunch and the fog dropped. I was designated skipper. Jack says, ok what are you going to do? I looked at the chart, there was a contour line due east so I said ok, gently motor out to the contour line, pick it up and go north then when we see the contour line bend from the entrance we should be there! He said ok, what then? I then said turn due west and gently feel our way in following the shallowing. Hmm, ok, take it easy he said. Off we went plus used the log. We got to where I thought we should turn west. Jack said how sure are you? I pulled out my brand new Garmin12, latest dogs rognons, bought at Sibs, never used in anger! His eyes opened, ooh he said let’s have a look at that, he’d never seen one before .
As he looked at we saw the fog open and there was the entrance! The other boat with the girl skipper trainer on stayed where they were! Got in late that night! I was very smug!

I taught quite a few courses for Jack and Christine. Can't remember the name of that boat but it was.....workmanlike and great fun to sail around the Straits.

Always interesting with the seasonal fog.

Good one!

 

[Beneteau381]

I taught quite a few courses for Jack and Christine. Can't remember the name of that boat but it was.....workmanlike and great fun to sail around the Straits.

Always interesting with the seasonal fog.

Good one!

Sig si ora
Or something like that