NMEA 0183

Max K said:
If you are using ANY of the ST 60 instruments, they will work without the Raymarine interface when linking to a device inputting/outputting 0183. I have been doing that for over ten years with no problems. However, once you move to NMEA 2000, or wish to include a Seatalk New Generation (SeaTalkng) item in your system, you will need to get an "Actisense NMEA 0183 to NMEA 2000 converter". I had to buy one of these when fitting a new autopilot last year. Raymarine DO make their own adapter but they readily admitted to me that it is inferior to the Actisense NGW-1 which is the item you need. Google it for further info.

Max.
Click to expand...

Please be specific - are you talking about getting NMEA FROM the ST60, in which case it's nonsense to say ANY of the instruments as only the multi and graphic have NMEA out terminals, or are you talking about putting NMEA INTO the ST60, which is not a problem?
If you are actually talking about NMEA OUT from a multi or graphic, have you tried connecting it to a device such as the Garmin plotter with a single ended input using DC -ve as the other connection, or only to well behaved differential input stages, which will work?
The problem is absolutely specific to getting NMEA FROM the ST60 INTO a single ended input.
 
Plevier said:
Please be specific - are you talking about getting NMEA FROM the ST60, in which case it's nonsense to say ANY of the instruments as only the multi and graphic have NMEA out terminals, or are you talking about putting NMEA INTO the ST60, which is not a problem?
If you are actually talking about NMEA OUT from a multi or graphic, have you tried connecting it to a device such as the Garmin plotter with a single ended input using DC -ve as the other connection, or only to well behaved differential input stages, which will work?
The problem is absolutely specific to getting NMEA FROM the ST60 INTO a single ended input.
Click to expand...

So you are saying that NO other nmea gear with a single ended input can be connected to an ST 60 instrument's nmea output?

Where are all the other ST60 owners who agree and why can I not find any on the 'net?

Is anyone on here using an ST60 with their other nmea gear via a single ended connection?
 
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ianj99 said:
So you are saying that NO other nmea gear with a single ended input can be connected to an ST 60 instrument's nmea output?

Where are all the other ST60 owners who agree and why can I not find any on the 'net?

Is anyone on here using an ST60 with their other nmea gear via a single ended connection?
Click to expand...

In case Plevier's given up on us :) I'll have a go at answering this...
Looking at the output circuit shown in Plevier's previous post I'd say that it wouldn't work with any truly single-ended input because you'd effectively be shorting the only "active" terminal (NMEA -ve) in the output stage to ground! This would give a permanently "on" single-ended input which is the NMEA idle state.

Check out http://raymarine.ning.com/forum/topics/st60-nmea-output-to-garmin-750 for another (similar) view on this.
 
nigelmercier said:
I have only experience of a few combinations, but none of them worked without a converter of some sort. That's why I built the module described by Plevier.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?407885
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Apologies for my obstinacy but its the way I was taught - if you are sceptical, challenge the 'other side' to provide irrefutable and independent proof.

I'm not trying to shoot anyone down and obviously you have solved plevier and others problem which is what matters to them.

At least on this thread, my 'challenges' have not yet resulted in a sarcastic, aggressive or personal attack, which so often happens on forums and I am more than happy to accept whatever proof is eventually provided.
 
nigelmercier said:
I have only experience of a few combinations, but none of them worked without a converter of some sort. That's why I built the module described by Plevier.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?407885
Click to expand...

A good theory makes predictions that can be tested. The theory is acceptable until the time a prediction is found to be false. I believe Nigel's theory is sound. Is there a forumite out there who knows different?
 
nigelmercier said:
It seems not.
Click to expand...

I should have said substantial proof and the link to the Raymarine forum look suspiciously familiar and has not had any updates and only 205 views in almost 2years.

Maybe Raymarine UK will reply to my query on this subject.
 
ianj99 said:
So you are saying that NO other nmea gear with a single ended input can be connected to an ST 60 instrument's nmea output?

YES

Where are all the other ST60 owners who agree and why can I not find any on the 'net?

I KNOW OF AT LEAST 3
It's probably a pretty rare requirement (How many chartplotters other than Garmin have a single ended input? I don't know. Maybe none. It's naughty of Garmin to do it.), it's not very necessary just nice to get your wind/depth/fluxgate heading onto the chartplotter display, and I expect some people have just shrugged their shoulders and not taken it further when it didn't work.

Is anyone on here using an ST60 with their other nmea gear via a single ended connection?
Click to expand...

see comments above
 
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Danny said:
In case Plevier's given up on us :) I'll have a go at answering this...
Looking at the output circuit shown in Plevier's previous post I'd say that it wouldn't work with any truly single-ended input because you'd effectively be shorting the only "active" terminal (NMEA -ve) in the output stage to ground! This would give a permanently "on" single-ended input which is the NMEA idle state.

Check out http://raymarine.ning.com/forum/topics/st60-nmea-output-to-garmin-750 for another (similar) view on this.
Click to expand...

That was me, same case.
Anyway your conclusion is same as mine.
 
I've so far only found one other discussion of the problem on sailing.net from 2004 and nothing in Raymarine's knowledge base and no reply to my email (they didn't reply to the sailing.net OP either)
However, on looking at the full schematic, its clear that the end of R67 was meant to go to TP127, it would then be driven with antiphase data which results in Tr18 and Tr5 both either being off = no led current and zero volts on any ground referred single ended nmea input Or both being on, meaning led current flows or +11v on a single ended input.

I wonder if Raymarine released a modified pcb or would modify a customer's if a complaint was received?
 
ianj99 said:
I've so far only found one other discussion of the problem on sailing.net from 2004 and nothing in Raymarine's knowledge base and no reply to my email (they didn't reply to the sailing.net OP either)
However, on looking at the full schematic, its clear that the end of R67 was meant to go to TP127, it would then be driven with antiphase data which results in Tr18 and Tr5 both either being off = no led current and zero volts on any ground referred single ended nmea input Or both being on, meaning led current flows or +11v on a single ended input.

I wonder if Raymarine released a modified pcb or would modify a customer's if a complaint was received?
Click to expand...

I'm so glad you've finally looked at it. Do you now accept that as built by Raymarine it will not work? We could have got to this point long ago with lower blood pressure.
I have no idea if your assumed design error is correct. Maybe Nigel will have thoughts on it.
I never got any sensible response from Raymarine either. Nobody suggested an update.
Long term support is not their strength.
 
Plevier said:
I'm so glad you've finally looked at it. Do you now accept that as built by Raymarine it will not work? We could have got to this point long ago with lower blood pressure.
I have no idea if your assumed design error is correct. Maybe Nigel will have thoughts on it.
I never got any sensible response from Raymarine either. Nobody suggested an update.
Long term support is not their strength.
Click to expand...

My BP is fine! Clearly too much undeserved faith in Raymarine on my part though.

The schematic is of issue E pcb, so maybe there is a later one, and had I an ST60, I'd have tried the mod as it would have solved the problem.
 
ianj99 said:
...
However, on looking at the full schematic, its clear that the end of R67 was meant to go to TP127, it would then be driven with antiphase data which results in Tr18 and Tr5 both either being off = no led current and zero volts on any ground referred single ended nmea input Or both being on, meaning led current flows or +11v on a single ended input.

I wonder if Raymarine released a modified pcb or would modify a customer's if a complaint was received?
Click to expand...
Oh yes! Wish I'd spotted that...
Maybe that was in fact the original design and Raymarine "fixed" it (by connecting the resistor to 0v) when they found that high impedance single ended inputs were too noise sensitive to cope with a floating connection on the +ve input terminal when both drivers are switched off. Could have been a problem if there was a long bit of cable between the st60 output and the single ended input.
 
Danny said:
Oh yes! Wish I'd spotted that...
Maybe that was in fact the original design and Raymarine "fixed" it (by connecting the resistor to 0v) when they found that high impedance single ended inputs were too noise sensitive to cope with a floating connection on the +ve input terminal when both drivers are switched off. Could have been a problem if there was a long bit of cable between the st60 output and the single ended input.
Click to expand...

Yes that's plausible but I guess we'll never know.
 
TR18 &19 are the 80mA current limiter and the "plus voltage" is stable at Vsupp minus 1.2v or so. This information is available in the documentation.
The diagram has no missing lines.
 
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