Nisos Kithera

[sailaboutvic]

I like Mr Heikell and his books are great and colourful , but I have to wonder where he gets his info from some time , there been many a time when we arrived some where new and to read what he wrote , you would had to think we where in a different place , but we all have to remember , his just another guy just like the rest of us and his option of some where may not be what you may find , so it good at time to correct his info , Im sure he wouldn't mind , so other don't experience the same discomfort . Anyway last night was one of them occasions , and the story goes ........

Dhiakofti , Nisos Kithera ,wind , West just about an F4 if that , all along the East Coast of Kithera there where gusts of the high ground ,that's expected , nothing new .
Rod writes ( " shelter , Adequate shelter from all winds when tucked under the the S Quay although with strong NE winds are likely to get uncomfortable and might be untenable in here ," ) ok it a westerly and not that strong so with that in mind we we got closer , stood off and looked in the harbour , my god it was white water rafting time , it took All the power we had to turn the boat thought the wind out side the harbour the gusts where that strong , ok no problem option two . Rod goes on to say ( " an Alternative in W-N-E winds would be anchor on the E side of Makronisos bottom is sand and weed with some rock mostly good holding " ) thanks god he got the last bit right . On first approach the view of a wreck on the small island comes into view ,well that inspire confidence in the holding , next a reef just above the water ( you missed that bit out ROD " it now dark and we been sailing for 18 hours , the gust wasn't so bad here and when all said and done we anchored in worst places , plus has Rod said the holding is good , and it needed to be , for the next 8 hour it felt like someone was trying to pull our bow off , the gust where so Serval, I swear our chain is now a few metres longer , come 4am and not an ounce of sleep although the co skipper slept like a log , enough was enough we slowly navigated our way back past the reef , then the island that now houses the wreck and headed south . I have very grateful that it was only a F 3 to 4 westerly that we had to deal with and not a real blow ,
If your thinking of taken shelter in a blow at Dhiakofti , DONT , just keep going which I now wish we had done . Some hours later and a good rest It time to calk it down to experience , and remember the saying , we learn some thing new each time we sail , just because some one says it looks good and on paper it does , it don't mean it going to be .
Happy sailing guys

 

[Tony Cross]

And don't go into Kapsali (on the south end of Kithera) in those winds either. It's like a washing machine in there in strong winds from W round to S.

 

[vyv_cox]

You have to suppose that Rod surveys many of his recommended anchorages from the car! Last year we visited O. Akrotiri on Amorgos. His only advice is that 'there is a pier in the bay with 2m depths at the extremity' other than the obvious statement that it is open to the meltemi. What he omitted to say is that the whole bay has a rock bottom - not a grain of sand or mud anywhere! It looks like perfect sand from the boat or presumably from the small pier. I swam the whole bay looking for somewhere to put the anchor but there is nowhere.

 

[grumpygit]

You have to suppose that Rod surveys many of his recommended anchorages from the car! Last year we visited O. Akrotiri on Amorgos. His only advice is that 'there is a pier in the bay with 2m depths at the extremity' other than the obvious statement that it is open to the meltemi. What he omitted to say is that the whole bay has a rock bottom - not a grain of sand or mud anywhere! It looks like perfect sand from the boat or presumably from the small pier. I swam the whole bay looking for somewhere to put the anchor but there is nowhere.

I can tell you that we met a couple in a mobile home on Kithria a couple of years ago doing a drive around to update Heikell's Cruising Guide . . . . and they were not even sailors!! So I don't think he lowers himself enough to drive around. At least Black Beard flew the Skull and Crossbones.
Lot's and lot's of miss information and because of this we stumped the extra and bought the Greek Sea Guides by Nicholas D. Ilias http://eagleray.gr/index.php/products/greece-sea-guide Quite a few €€€€s I know but what price to have good information at the right time.

 

[sailaboutvic]

M

You have to suppose that Rod surveys many of his recommended anchorages from the car! Last year we visited O. Akrotiri on Amorgos. His only advice is that 'there is a pier in the bay with 2m depths at the extremity' other than the obvious statement that it is open to the meltemi. What he omitted to say is that the whole bay has a rock bottom - not a grain of sand or mud anywhere! It looks like perfect sand from the boat or presumably from the small pier. I swam the whole bay looking for somewhere to put the anchor but there is nowhere.

From a car is a bit of wishful thinking , maybe someone could drop him a note , telling him his better off checking out Google Earth first and save his petrol money . Has I said his books are great and colour full , not sure about is info , I thinking of given one to my grandad next Christmas , she love the photos . Second thought maybe not .

 

[vyv_cox]

we stumped the extra and bought the Greek Sea Guides by Nicholas D. Ilias http://eagleray.gr/index.php/products/greece-sea-guide Quite a few €€€€s I know but what price to have good information at the right time.

We have bought two for the Aegean. There is some good stuff in them but he must be the most optimistic person on earth! We have tried a good few of his more obscure recommended anchorages and found them pretty much untenable. He comes out with stuff like 'anchoring here is good if the anchor catches a clump of weed'. So as with all the pilots, I use them as a guide but definitely not gospel. And his weather lore never fails to give us a good laugh!

 

[Tony Cross]

Well, having researched and written a pilot for Crete I can tell you that it's very hard getting accurate and complete information. It's not enough to arrive, drop the hook, take a few photos and then write it all up. We've spent a couple of days in some places pottering round in the dinghy and asking locals about what happens in bad weather. Even then the pilot info is only as accurate as the day you were there. I've already had people email me to let me know that the port I described as safe in most conditions is anything but with a storm from wherever. A pilot is really only a guide so you have some idea of what to expect when you get somewhere new, it can't ever cover every possible sea or weather state. That said, I think Rod has perhaps overstretched himself with his Mediterranean range of pilots, it's clear that nobody can cover that much ground on their own, yet he was invaluable to us when we were arriving at places we'd never been before.

 

[Squeaky]

Good evening:

I first met Rod during the winter of 1980 when he wintered in Nidri having finished his first cruise around the Ionian to prepare a guide for the flotilla company he then worked for. I have met him a number of times since including once when he was updating his guide for the area around Corfu and I can assure you that I would not wanted to have followed his schedule because it was very hectic although it only involved checking for changes since his first visit.

Tony Cross is very correct when he says any pilot is only a guide as they are based on the circumstances which existed on the day when the author visited any given location. Suggest anyone who need more certainty and accuracy might consider returning to his arm chair and TV.

Cheers

Squeaky

 

[sailaboutvic]

(as they are based on the circumstances which existed on the day when the author visited any given location. Suggest anyone who need more certainty and accuracy might consider returning to his arm chair and TV
Cheers
Squeaky)

Morning Squeak , we seen to differ here , if you are going to write a Pilot book commercially unlike Tony Cross ( who did his out of the love of sailing ) one would expect that he would make the effort to talk to local with sea experience to find out what condition are like in different weather , no one expect the guy to sit in any one place experience all weather condition . So when he states "Adequate shelter from certain winds " " good anchorage " or any other important fact one would expect that he himself have. Checked this out , other wise why state it . We not talking water taps here or supermarkets .
If we want guesses then we can all write our know pilot book without leaving our arm chair as you put it ,


I don't think any one unless very inexperience uses a pilot book as gospel , and I have to admit when I looked at a chart of Dhiakofti and the small land that jets out , Makronisos , before I read his remakes , I too had expected reasonable shelter from a moderate west wind Even with the gust , I have to wonder if that what's has happen here .

I have twice been in touch with Imray informing then of correction that need to be investigated one where we taken off to the PP for anchoring In a prohibition area both time Imray have said they will let the author know , years later they correction haven been made . Not sure what that tells me , I haven't bother to writing any more to them .
By the way I have also met Rod . Twice , both times in a bar ,

Putting all this to one side , his book can be helpful at times .

 

[jimbaerselman]

I first met Rod during the winter of 1980 when he wintered in Nidri having finished his first cruise around the Ionian to prepare a guide for the flotilla company he then worked for. I have met him a number of times since including once when he was updating his guide for the area around Corfu and I can assure you that I would not wanted to have followed his schedule because it was very hectic although it only involved checking for changes since his first visit.

The company was Crawford Perry Travel (CPT) - operating 24 Cobra 850, mustard yellow. That autumn I was tidying away a fleet of Wayfarers in Nidri. Nidri's population was 350 - one old hotel, three tavernas, 2 or 3 private houses offering bed and breakfast, lots of olive tree farmers and lots of mossies. We must have met?

His first guides were for CPT flotillas in the Ionian and the Saronic. Meticulously researched. He knew exactly how to write up for newcomers to a harbour, port or anchorage - having led flotillas around those routes.

The trouble was that each winter one in twenty of those harbours would add a quay or pontoon. Or someone would build a hotel where there was once a restaurant.

Moaners then notice the one thing that changed over winter, forgetting the 95% of guidance that wasn't there before. All pilot books suffer from that problem. Over the years I've helped edit various parts of the CA Almanac. You read the logs people have sent in, ring up people who've visited the harbours you missed, plough through the reports, ring up harbour masters, send in the corrections . . . and still miss some changes.

Now if, rather than criticising the author/editor, people would send an email to the publishers, it would be much easier to keep these publications up to date.

And many thanks to all those lovely people who send me emails, or post comments on my pages.

 

[jaba]

The company was Crawford Perry Travel (CPT) - ...
And many thanks to all those lovely people who send me emails, or post comments on my pages.

all that said, if you buy a pilot you expect (need) it to be reliable. In my experience Elias is reliable. I would not enter a new harbour at night with Heikell's book as my only guide (other than charts).
best
j

 

[Tony Cross]

all that said, if you buy a pilot you expect (need) it to be reliable. In my experience Elias is reliable. I would not enter a new harbour at night with Heikell's book as my only guide (other than charts).
best
j

Unless there was a major reason why I had to, I would never plan to enter a new harbour at night. That's just asking for trouble IMO.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I would had through most people try and reach a new harbour or anchorage in some kind of day light , but as anyone who does long distain sailing know it not always possible , I guess we entered 5 ( sorry just had to edit been told it was 5 ) unknown spot in the dark last year , without any real problem , bit tense at times , but we alway try and find out has much as we can as soon as we know we going to be doing that , pilot book is only one option for me , I find Google Earth a great help , a good look at the chart , then lastly the pilot book to see what has been written about it and any good suggestion , then we use the skills we learned over the years to finish the job and with a little bit of luck and as long has murphy keeps his nose out of it , we can end the day with a nice glass or wine .

Look guys I did start this thread to have a go at Rod book , or any one else , but I have and alway will try and Inform other of something I feel may keep them safe , and my feeling is two very critical bit of info have been missed out , one was the severe of the gust that does make this as good or safe anchorage as been said and two the reef just about showing and at time not , now if this upset a few of you by trying to defend Rod book so be it .

 

[jaba]

Unless there was a major reason why I had to I would never plan to enter a new harbour at night.

Methink you answered yourself
Best
j