Nicholson 345 (Fast 345)

[axismatt]

As happens with most people my search criteria for a boat has been refined. I now want a boat capable of long passages at a decent pace and with decent live aboard facilities for up to 3 -6 months at a time.
The Nich 345 seems to fit the bill (and my budget) 3 came throught the 79 Fastent un-damaged, reasonable rating (didnt mention I like to do a bit of round the cans). Easily sailed short handed, no runners, largish main. Good accomodation, hot water, aft cabin loads of locker space.
So why did they not sell well, anyone sailed one/own one? I mention the Fast 345 in the title as they were built as the above in Brazil though some doubts over keel/hull integrity have been come to light with them.

I realise that 34 foot is a bit small for a long term live aboard, but right now its all i can afford without selling up etc. I don’t want to do that yet as children may appear on the horizon and a nesting instinct from my partner may prevail!

Any advice would be great, and thanks all for past help.

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[Talbot]

Another one that is worth a quick look of the same vintage and pedigree is the Westerly GK34

Personnally for a liveaboard I would rather have a catamarran!

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[axismatt]

Yes I have looked at those though only in print, they do come with runners as standard though not structural so the rig acan be modified. have you salied one?

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[Talbot]

At one stage I was looking at a GK29 and had realised that a 34 would be better, I had quite a bit of advice that the 34 was a good boat, but SWMBO scuppered that plan with a dislike for being tilted over for long periods of time, ended up with a catamaran, and now would not buy a monohull.

Depends really if you intend long distance cruising as well as liveaboard, or just local . If long distance, remember that a lot of trade wind stuff is downhill (if you have got the time of year right!) and a monohull downwind can be downright uncomfortable with cyclic rolling - not a problem a catamaran worries about.

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[axismatt]

that’s true enough, I dont have any experience of large cats only Darts & Hobbies which are great fun. Not sure of their capabilities in a real blow, I will look into it further must be harder to find a berth in a Marina though.

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[Talbot]

depends what you buy in terms of marina berths. My 9m Catalac is only 14' wide, so fits into marina berths without problems. a proper cruising cat is as safe as any vessel but dagger boards have no place on a cruising boat. Old designs are built very strongly, but this makes them slower than modern designs, and also not as good to windward. However, more modern designs tend to be wider. Of the better known cruising boats, the Prout Snowgoose Elite has a deservedly good reputation. newer boats that are winning a lot of support are the Lagoon 38 and 41. A cruising cat has one particular vulnerability, and that is going too fast down a long wave, and tripping up at the bottom, and thus pitchpoling. a series drogue to slow you down, and a parachute anchor for survival conditions would provide good peace of mind.

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[webkoala]

Hi there , Im from Brazil and i have a FAST 345 for sale
you can see more informations in
http://www.mgold.net/koala/koala.asp
Obvious this pages are script in portuguese but coo guys use google translate to understand that

Im Have this FAST 345 over last 7 Yars an very hapy, realy are a pedegree boat with Ron Roland signature

Best regards

Webkoala

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[CN34506]

We own a C&N345, our home port is St. Thomas, USVI, and we love this boat. I am not sure, though, it would be 100% ideal (is any boat?) for a liveaboard / shorthander.

Crewing comments:

These comments are only as to the C&N, not the Fast, as I understand there are differences (for example, the Fast, I think, is a masthead rig; the C&N is a 3/4 fractional). My wife and I double-hand our boat. We do not have a roller-fuller; both our headsail and mainsail are bolt-rope fed. I think a roller-fuller would increase ease of sailhandling, but decrease performance more than we would like. Getting the sails up (my job) can sometimes be a chore, especially in high winds.

We have removed our running backs, but we have never had a spinnaker. Our rigger has told us the running backs are unnecessary as long as we are under jib-and-main. The spreaders are sharply swept back, so the shrouds offer support to the forward sail. But I would not want to tempt fate with an increased load from aft under spinnaker, without further support. The running backs would provide a great deal of sail trim on the jib, if racing is important.

Even though we probably sail her sub-optimally, she is fast. We sailed her this weekend in 20-25 kts true, and under #2 jib and double-reefed main we were maintaining 6 kts to weather. We saw 7.4 on a broad reach under #2 jib alone (OK, that was a momentary reading, surfing). In lighter winds, it takes a while to get her going. Under 6kts of wind, and you will be very tempted to crank the iron genny. On a beam reach with more sail up (and more crew!) in 15kts, it is not unusal to sustain speeds in the high 7's.

She heels easily, and likes having her rail almost in the water. Once she is at about 15*, she stiffens up nicely. This is wonderful for sailing, but as a liveaboard, you'll want to be doubly sure your stores below are well-secured.

Liveaboard comments:
Good things: There is a great deal of living space for the LOA. The Lavac head is simple to operate and maintain. The aft cabin berth has plenty of room -- I am over 6' and I sleep there comfortably with my wife.
Not-so-good things: I find storage to be adequate for us; but we are not liveaboards. If we were, I believe I would find it wanting, as compared to a true cruiser. There is plenty of storage for sails and maintenance items, but not so much for clothing and longer-term food stores. Also, the boat is very light, and as a result, moves around quite a bit while at anchor. Again, this suits our weekending purposes just fine, but it might be bothersome if we were living aboard.

One overall thing: This boat is exceptionally well-built and can take a beating. When we found ours, she had been neglected in tropical waters for 7 years, yet she is hardly worse for the experience. The systems, like with any boat, must be always maintained. But the hull, deck, and spars on our boat have been severely tested and come through with flying colors.

Good luck, whatever you decide!

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[345000]

Re: Nicholson 345

Hi Doublem,

My Father owned "Tronador", the prototype Nicholson 345 for 11 years from the mid eighties, and in terms of interior space a better liveabaord of that size, with that kind of performance is nigh on impossible to find - I certainly never have. The 345 is the only yahct I know of 34' ish to have over 6 feet of headroom in the saloon - on the centrline, in the area directly in front of the engine box, the headroom is all of 6'7". This is thanks to the high freeboard, which appears to be a Ron Holland trademark of that era. The performance is good all-round, but to windward is where they really shine, with a large, relatively high aspect ratio rig, carrying 657 sq. ft of sail at a height of some 52' off the waterline. With the rig properly tensioned and tuned you can expect to point as high as 25 degrees to the apparent and still make 6 knots in 15 - 18 knots of true wind. The helm remains light, and responsive, the rudder making up well over 15% of the total lateral plane area. Under engine at close quarters they have no major foybles, and usually remain docile and responsive. In flat water with no wind effective steerage can be maintained at speeds below a quarter of a knot through the water !

Now for the down-side: The large rig is great for her performance, but single handed sailing is nearly impossible because of the fact that you're stuck behind the helm, and can't reach any of the sheets. To sail these boats effectively, you need at least to crew and a helmsman, otherwise the rig can be a handful, especially if you have running backstays - Though these can be safely removed as the spreaders have a 30 degree sweep back. Unfortunately removing the runners would reduce performance to windward, as they are there soley to tension the forestay when sailing to windward, and contrary to popular belief are not needed to support the mast. Indeed for downwind work, they should be let go completely, even when flying a spinnaker.

Have you seen many Nich 345's ? There weren't many made, partly bacause not long after their introduction, C&N got into serious financial difficutly.

Better sailing boats of that size are difficult to find - certainly in terms of manners, the likes of the Sigma 33 fall well short !