Nice trip up the Ouse spoiled

[Flynnbarr]

How's this rough and somewhat hazy sketch Lisa? does it depict the situation from your vantage point? the race dinghies all with fetching black sails (same 'elite' club maybe?) cut the corner of the channel to join the channel immediately to our stern and basically swamped us aft, port and starboard with their waggly tongues and foul mouths . little we could do but continue to wait patiently for the tacking dinghies in front of us to make their way up stream 'at a snails pace' so we could nip into the next fairway to our starboard quarter.

What a realistic drawing,do you have artistic tendencies
I could have done with your help when I had to do a sketch for my insurance claim

 

[Searush]

Perhaps you should check on that one, its under power in gear of not because the engine can be used to avoid an incident and the boat is no longer at the mercy of the wind, Otherwise a mobo in neutral could claim right of way.

Can you provide a translation please? Oh & there are still no (& never have been any) col reg situations where anyone has "right of way"

 

[boatingdave]

Maybe you haven't noticed the lighthearted diversion?

Sorry, I had this written in the background and hadn't noticed the additional threads. Sanity prevails So in answer to the question, no I hadn't!

 

[oGaryo]

What a realistic drawing,do you have artistic tendencies
I could have done with your help when I had to do a sketch for my insurance claim

pm me your number, I'll send you my business card. It's a new venture, "Fluffy Top Trees & Stick Men ltd"... 5 years schooling in primary school got me to where I am today

 

[oGaryo]

I'd set him off on his own in future, motorboats out to get him last week, little dinghies this week. What next? I'd put my money on a close encounter with a Wightlink ferry, they're particularly sneaky. Easy to draw though :encouragement:

oi Mr Snail, what's with the communication to oGaryo by proxy?... man up man and communicate directly !!

 

[Elessar]

I'd set him off on his own in future, motorboats out to get him last week, little dinghies this week. What next? I'd put my money on a close encounter with a Wightlink ferry, they're particularly sneaky. Easy to draw though :encouragement:

Been a run on fisher price bath toys. They are assembling an armada apparently. Will need crayons in lots of colours though.

 

[oGaryo]

This thread needs to close folk. It has completely moved from the original point although I'll probably be berated for making this comment. Lets all be friends, we have a great hobby in common (and I do mean in common and there are a wide range of experience with the varied methods of getting on the water). Really surprised at the vitriolic rhetoric in this thread.

Nooooooo way!!! Vitriolic AND Rhetoric in the same post... if not done so already, get yourself into the lounge, you'll love it there

 

[Searush]

Nooooooo way!!! Vitriolic AND Rhetoric in the same post... if not done so already, get yourself into the lounge, you'll love it there

ooooh, you norty boy!

 

[rbcoomer]

All this thread is missing is Tim B and Daka...

To the o/p, my best attempt at advice is to bide your time at don't get put off by inconsiderate actions of others. Getting impatient, annoyed or giving up solves nothing and means you're the one losing out. We've done the 'intimidated' bit, but have learnt to rise above it and be the better person. I love being on the water regardless and just because I can't go exactly where I want, when I want doesn't matter one bit - sit it out and wait for a change of circumstance if necessary and let them go around you if they want. Treat every day as the valuable experience it is, breakdowns and other circumstances beyond your control will otherwise always be a 'day ruined'. We've had more breakdowns than I care to remember and have become more resourceful as a consequence. This applies equally to other non-breakdown events - they're all experience and ironically, they tend to be the days you remember and will likely look back and laugh at one day. However inconsiderate they may seem, they're probably not that different to you and perhaps didn't even realise the effect of their action? Try shouting 'ok to come through' or similar next time and you'll probably find they'll give you some space. Rivers tend to be much more friendly in my experience - probably because of the lower speeds and close quarters, but also because you probably meet the same folk over and over. Above all, be nice - costs nothing and makes them the a**ehole if they're rude - much like one or two posters on here!

 

[l'escargot]

oi Mr Snail, what's with the communication to oGaryo by proxy?... man up man and communicate directly !!

I was talking about you, not to you

 

[oGaryo]

I was talking about you, not to you

you're not related to my wife are you?

 

[jfm]

I've been away boating so only just seen this thread for the first time. As regards oGaryo's case, it feels to me like there is much misunderstanding of Colregs. I experienced the same last year when I was on the Hamble for a little while. Gary, you were completely right and were the stand on vessel mate.

1. As others have said, overtaking sailboats must give way to overtaken motorboats, so Gary looking at your drawing you were stand on perhaps under that rule.

2. But that pales into insignificance with the fairway/channel rule. The Hamble near Swanwick marina is for sure a "narrow channel or fairway" and a 28 footer isn't something that can be dragged up a beach or whatever so it can only safely navigate in the fairway, hence rule 9 applies. Note: I am not saying Gary's boat was RAM or constrained by draft; it wasn't either of those and wasn't (I expect) displaying any dayshape. But at 28 feet and 6 tonnes or whatever it can only navigate safely in the fairway, and that is all that is required for Rule 9 to bite. Rule 9 expressly trumps the power-gives-way-to-sail rule, which is broadly speaking an open water rule. To cut n paste, Rule 9 says:

"9(a) A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable.
(b) A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway...
(d) A vessel shall not cross a narrow channel or fairway if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such channel or fairway. The latter vessel may use the sound signal prescribed in Rule 34(d) [=5 toots] if in doubt as to the intention of the crossing vessel."​

When I was gingerly buzzing up and down the Hamble last year in 80 footer mobo I followed the same policy, obviously with courtesy to others and without running over children in Optimists etc. Where sensible, I invoked rule 9 and had to tell a few other boats (obviously only the <20metre jobs, but that's 99.99%) about it when they ranted, and sometimes I used a dialect called "Kahlenberg" . So in summary Gary you were imho very firmly in the right, judging as best I can from your sketch and description. Same might apply to OP but I do not have as much detail on his circumstnaces. Folks need to remember that power-gives-way-to-sail is broadly an open water rule and it is trumped by rules 9, 10j and 13. I suggest read also post 56 on the MBM-demise sticky at the top of the forum. Forum cigar to you/happy sailing Gary!

 

[oGaryo]

I've been away boating so only just seen this thread for the first time. As regards oGaryo's case, it feels to me like there is much misundersntading of Colregs. I experienced the same last year when I was on the Hamble for a little while. Gary, you were completely right and were the stand on vessel mate.

1. As others have said, overtaking sailboats must give way to overtaken motorboats, so Gary looking at your drawing you were stand on perhaps under that rule.

2. But that pales into insignificance with the fairway/channel rule. The Hamble near Swanwick marina is for sure a "narrow channel or fairway" and a 28 footer isn't something that can be dragged up a beach or whatever so it can only safely navigate in the fairway, hence rule 9 applies. Note: I am not saying Gary's boat was RAM or constrained by draft; it wasn't either of those and wasn't (I expect) displaying any dayshape. But at 28 feet and 6 tonnes or whatever it can only navigate safely in the fairway, and that is all that is required for Rule 9 to bite. Rule 9 expressly trumps the power-gives-way-to-sail rule, which is broadly speaking an open water rule. To cut n paste, Rule 9 says:

"9(a) A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable.
(b) A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway...
(d) A vessel shall not cross a narrow channel or fairway if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such channel or fairway. The latter vessel may use the sound signal prescribed in Rule 34(d) [=5 toots of the Kahlenberg] if in doubt as to the intention of the crossing vessel."​

When I was gingerly buzzing up and down the Hamble last year in 80 footer mobo I followed the same policy, obviously with courtesy to others and without running over children in Optimists etc. Where sensible, I invoked rule 9 and had to tell a few other boats (obviously only the <20metre jobs, but that's 99.99%) about it when they ranted, sometimes using a language called "Kahlenberg" . So in summary Gary you were imho very firmly in the right, judging as best I can from your sketch and description. Same might apply to OP but I do not have as much detail on his circumstnaces. Folks need to remember that power-gives-way-to-sail is broadly an open water rule and it is trumped by rules 9, 10j and 13. I suggest read also post 56 on the MBM-demise sticky at the top of the forum. Forum cigar to you/happy sailing Gary!

Have I ever told you I love you ?


probably should have pm'd that and pssst, don't tell the missus

 

[jfm]

No, it is only under power if "propelled" by the machinery, it isn't under power if the engine is out of gear.

With apols for my pedantry, but that isn't correct. The Colregs as a whole are (imo) a terribly badly drafted set of rules, full of ambiguities and in need of a thorough re-write, but you have taken it further and seen what you want to read, not what is written. The definition of a mobo involves "propelled by machinery", and in that case it's clear the draftsman didn't intend that a vessel isn't "power-driven" merely because it is in neutral. But the definition of "under sail" uses different words: it requires that any propelling machinery is not "being used" and doesn't at all use the words "propelled" or "propelled by machinery". You may argue, but you cannot say for sure as you do above, that an engine temporarily in neutral isn't "being used". I'd say that it is "being used", fwiw.

 

[l'escargot]

Have I ever told you I love you ?


probably should have pm'd that and pssst, don't tell the missus

Don't get too excited, certainly at high tide your boat can navigate safely outside of the fairway in places and sailing boats qualify as vessels too - some will be to big to navigate safely outside of the fairway and will also possibly be constrained by draught. So that's 2 rules that say you shouldn't impede them. Obviously doesn't apply to dinghies in this case though

 

[SpottyDog5]

Most sailors know how to motor a boat,

That aint true, both "Spottys" got hit by sailors who clearly couldn't.

 

[Nigelpickin]

I have a question, Gary/Lisa, was this an organised race?

 

[DAKA]

All this thread is missing is Tim B and Daka...

You didnt really think I would miss this did you

In a nut shell a sailing boat isnt allowed to impede a mobo in a narrow channel

Hold your course and remember you have an equal duty to avoid a collision, once in the latter stages of avoid a collision situation you are usually exempt from the speed / wash restrictions found in most bylaws . :encouragement:

 

[rbcoomer]

You didnt really think I would miss this did you

In a nut shell a sailing boat isnt allowed to impede a mobo in a narrow channel

Hold your course and remember you have an equal duty to avoid a collision, once in the latter stages of avoid a collision situation you are usually exempt from the speed / wash restrictions found in most bylaws . :encouragement:

Welcome home!

 

[jfm]

Don't get too excited, certainly at high tide your boat can navigate safely outside of the fairway in places and sailing boats qualify as vessels too - some will be to big to navigate safely outside of the fairway and will also possibly be constrained by draught. So that's 2 rules that say you shouldn't impede them. Obviously doesn't apply to dinghies in this case though

Steady l'escargot. If you look at Gary's drawing the depth/high tide point isn't relevant. He is clearly in a narrow channel even if his draft is one inch and the water is a mile deep, and therefore everything I said about rule 9 applies

Rule 9a imposes an obligation on the sailboats to keep to starboard if following the channel and rule 9d tells them to keep out of the way (of a vessel that needs the channel) if crossing the channel. Those two circumstances cover all the bases don't they? I mean you're either following or crossing the channel, or both (ie diagonally), I think. The obligation in 9b applies to Gary too but I do not see he is in breach of it. He must of course observe the overtaking-vessel-gives-way rule if he comes up astern of a slower boat but I don't think that point was in dispute (though correct me if I'm missing something there).

I should add ref my post above that I am talking Colregs only. I don't know about special Hamble rules. If there are any local rules that give a different answer then of course I'll eat my words and Gary and I will have to fall back out of love Also, I'm kind of assuming Gary has to be in the fairway - I just don't have enough on depths and so on to comment. But in applying that part of the rule remember there is the word "safely", which is probably within the skipper's reasonable discretion to determine.