Next season planning

[PhillM]

I am in the lucky position of having quite a bit of leave to take next spring/summer. Likely to be a week in April to prep Swift, 2 weeks in May, one week in June, 2 weeks in July, and 2 in August. I might be able to join the July and August weeks together. I might also be able to work from the boat from time to time. I don’t mind mooring her up somewhere and traveling home then picking her up later. Especially if that makes for a more interesting/adventurous holiday.

So where would you go? Previous trips have included the West Country, most ports from Solent to Falmouth, and a Cherbourg East to Caen. I have not done the CI’s and tbh the pilot books make the pace seem pretty scary for my little outboard/20-foot bilge keeler. But that might just be me assuming the worst.

I have wondered about going East to Holland or West to Ireland. As I have been typing this I have started to wonder about the Irish trip. I could work Swift down to Falmouth during May/June and then head over for July, then return in the August break.

Those are my ideas, what would you do?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

SW to W Ireland is a wonderful cruising ground but you might find the passage from Cornwall or Scillies a bit overwhelming in a 20 foot outboard powered boat, perfectly possible though.

 

[srm]

Would your budget run to moving her by road to a new area?

 

[PhillM]

SW to W Ireland is a wonderful cruising ground but you might find the passage from Cornwall or Scillies a bit overwhelming in a 20 foot outboard powered boat, perfectly possible though.

Agreed that is going to be a challenge, but thats part of the excitement/adventure of it for me. I have spent the afternoon doing power calcs and also cost/usability of adding more battery+solar or moving the outboard to one side and putting my wind vane on her. One 110 AGM extra battery, dedicated to the TP10 and as a backup to the main domestic would give me about 4 days continuous crusing as I dont run much except for a plotter/AIS combo unit, VHF and LED trilight. I could eek out more if I used a HH radio instead and spend more time hand steering.

 

[PhillM]

Would your budget run to moving her by road to a new area?

Potentially yes. I think she would sit on a car trailer and I could rent a van, or pay a transport co to hymac her off from a yard then get her relaunched elswhere.

Where would you suggest?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Agreed that is going to be a challenge, but thats part of the excitement/adventure of it for me. I have spent the afternoon doing power calcs and also cost/usability of adding more battery+solar or moving the outboard to one side and putting my wind vane on her. One 110 AGM extra battery, dedicated to the TP10 and as a backup to the main domestic would give me about 4 days continuous crusing as I dont run much except for a plotter/AIS combo unit, VHF and LED trilight. I could eek out more if I used a HH radio instead and spend more time hand steering.

Not so many places for shore charging a small petrol suitcase type generator could be a good investment if you could find space.

 

[lustyd]

CIs are no worse than Cherbourg. If you’re comfortable crossing then I’d do them and St Malo. There’s always space at Braye in Alderney and St Peter Port is greatly expanded giving some nice safe stops. Sark is a favourite of ours and has great anchorages.

 

[Daydream believer]

If using some transport then go to Ostend & chug up the Dutch canals along the standing mast route from Flushing. The area is great for small boat sailing & there are lots of places to leave a small boat in safety that will not break the bank. Transport is fairly good as well. My son went right to Goes from London via Harwich/the Hook in half a day, to meet me earlier this year. So if leaving the boat then going back to it you will have little problems.

Return the boat to Ostend for the Paulusfesten in August & get lifted out for the trip home.. They can lift small boats in & out there Ok.The journey to Calais crossing is not too ardious. Then it is all Uk travelling by road to wherever your home base is.

If the weather is bad one will have less lost weeks, as being inland one is better protected. The only difficult bit is the 30 miles Ostend to Flushing & that can be broken down into a couple of legs In the Netherlands the major towns each have plenty to amuse one for a couple of days. Ostend in particular, can keep one busy for 2-3 weeks.

 

[PhillM]

CIs are no worse than Cherbourg. If you’re comfortable crossing then I’d do them and St Malo. There’s always space at Braye in Alderney and St Peter Port is greatly expanded giving some nice safe stops. Sark is a favourite of ours and has great anchorages.

Thanks that’s really helpful. I crossed last in Paean with her onboard as backup but see no reason not to go on Swift with the outboard.

 

[PhillM]

If using some transport then go to Ostend & chug up the Dutch canals along the standing mast route from Flushing. The area is great for small boat sailing & there are lots of places to leave a small boat in safety that will not break the bank. Transport is fairly good as well. My son went right to Goes from London via Harwich/the Hook in half a day, to meet me earlier this year. So if leaving the boat then going back to it you will have little problems.

Return the boat to Ostend for the Paulusfesten in August & get lifted out for the trip home.. They can lift small boats in & out there Ok.The journey to Calais crossing is not too ardious. Then it is all Uk travelling by road to wherever your home base is.

If the weather is bad one will have less lost weeks, as being inland one is better protected. The only difficult bit is the 30 miles Ostend to Flushing & that can be broken down into a couple of legs In the Netherlands the major towns each have plenty to amuse one for a couple of days. Ostend in particular, can keep one busy for 2-3 weeks.

That sounds like an interesting option. I’ll have a look at it. Thank you.

 

[johnalison]

You also need to think about the prevailing winds, even if they don’t always behave. Going east with the need to sail back will be problematic in two years out of three. We often had enough trouble just getting back to the East Coast, so the road route will be much more reliable. The Channel Islands Isles are glorious but with strong tidal streams you may need to be patient in a smaller boat. Ireland would be for the intrepid. We took 24 hrs from the Scillies and felt very exposed in what turned out to be dodgy weather. The main thing is not to put yourself in a hurry, and my rule, which many share, is fast out/slow back.

 

[srm]

Long way there and back to the boat but west coast of Scotland, from Clyde and Northwards offers man years of interest and new places. Weather varies from wonderful to downright grim though. Caledonian Canal offers a week or so of fairly sheltered motoring, though Loch Ness can be a sailing challenge with a head wind.

 

[ridgy]

Another vote for CI and St Malo in that boat. 51nm from Weymouth to Alderney and likely a reach/run home. Always an option to ferry back from Cherbourg or St Malo or fly from CI. Better weather and more interesting when you get there.
Ireland best done by car unless you have a rather substantial boat or unlimited time. Could easily get stuck with limited options and dismal weather. No fun in a boat you can't stand up in.

 

[lustyd]

Thanks that’s really helpful. I crossed last in Paean with her onboard as backup but see no reason not to go on Swift with the outboard.

Don’t get me wrong, if you get the tides wrong that outboard won’t save you, but neither would it outside of Cherbourg and you were happy with that. The trick is understanding the tides and weather and having a bolt hole. If you come from Jersey to Alderney then chances are you may need to abandon the trip and head back to Guernsey or Sark until the next tide. Not a huge problem if you’re not in a rush.
We saw a boat whose engine had broken get towed to Alderney last year. He’d called on the radio and asked politely of a very big sailboat and explained he could turn back to Guernsey but was tired having sailed all day to get there. His SOG had dropped to almost zero despite very good STW. He then sailed beautifully onto a buoy deep in Braye harbour when they untied him.

 

[harvey38]

It's a boat, sail it and sail it South where the weather is generally warmer

 

[Daydream believer]

It's a boat, sail it and sail it South where the weather is generally warmer

There is a limit to how far one wants to sail a small boat in one hop. Over 25 miles it becomes a chore. Whilst some suggest the Channel Islands one has to look at the distances involved.
Chbg to St Peter Port 45 Miles.( Yes I know about Dilette, but it is not an exit port) At 4 kts one is going to struggle to get to the Little Russel before the tide changes. St Peter Port to Lezardreiux is probably 50 miles & then coast hops are all 25 + miles & very tide constrained. Miss a tide & things can get very difficult.

Going from Chbg to the CIs & back into France involves the Schengan treaty so officially one has to go 70 miles to Roscoff having booked out out Chbg to go to the CIs the back in at Roscoff. 70 miles in a small boat is no joke if weather does not play ball. Tides are predictable, but weather is certainly not. The coast to L'aberwrach is dangerous. St Malo is a long way. There are other places to log in & out but certain restrictions apply which will not suit the cruising sailor that well.

I personally think that area is hard work for someone with a small boat & one has to decide where to leave it.
Anchoring is OK but if going to,say, Treguier, one wants to explore the place. Not sit & be surrounded by water up the river. Catch the tide wrong & a small outboard will not get one up the river to the marina.

I suggest that the Op sits down with some decent tide tables before making the final decision. He needs to be reasonable about what sort of sailing speed he is going to make. Then decide how long he wants to sail before getting tired. What crew etc & how they will feel. Where he wants to stop- anchor ( that will need a dinghy- will he tow it or pump it up every time he needs it or tow it & go slower) or spend money by marina hopping. Then join the dots with some sample passage plans to see if the destinations are really viable.
It is OK for forumites to just say "sail it" but they are not sitting in the cockpit, nackered, fed up, wet & looking at the crew pucking over the side, getting miserable by the day. It is not all about sailing. Arriving is just as important.

 

[doug748]

I am in the lucky position of having quite a bit of leave to take next spring/summer. Likely to be a week in April to prep Swift, 2 weeks in May, one week in June, 2 weeks in July, and 2 in August. I might be able to join the July and August weeks together. I might also be able to work from the boat from time to time. I don’t mind mooring her up somewhere and traveling home then picking her up later. Especially if that makes for a more interesting/adventurous holiday.

So where would you go? Previous trips have included the West Country, most ports from Solent to Falmouth, and a Cherbourg East to Caen. I have not done the CI’s and tbh the pilot books make the pace seem pretty scary for my little outboard/20-foot bilge keeler. But that might just be me assuming the worst.

I have wondered about going East to Holland or West to Ireland. As I have been typing this I have started to wonder about the Irish trip. I could work Swift down to Falmouth during May/June and then head over for July, then return in the August break.

Those are my ideas, what would you do?

I would plan for the Channel Islands but have Holland up my sleeve in case you face the sort of run of strong Westerly winds we had in the second half of last season. Given luck with the weather, your May break could get you to St Malo as, suggested. If you stall there or Guernsey, Jersey or Alderney it's an easy matter to get back to the UK by ferry.

I would consider getting to Dartmouth first, which has every advantage for passage to Guernsey in a small boat. Also look at the option of moving south via the West side of the Cherbourg peninsular, which could give you the possibility of shorter passages. Check out the chart of St Malo entrance, you need you nav kit to be spot on and you have to be bob on using it, as you tackle these coasts.

If you joined ship in St Malo later in the season you are well placed for good local sailing the including the Rance, St Cast, Hebihens etc. Perfect for a small, bilge keeler. With luck you are set for a downwind'ish passage home via the islands.

.

 

[PhillM]

Don’t get me wrong, if you get the tides wrong that outboard won’t save you, but neither would it outside of Cherbourg and you were happy with that. The trick is understanding the tides and weather and having a bolt hole. If you come from Jersey to Alderney then chances are you may need to abandon the trip and head back to Guernsey or Sark until the next tide. Not a huge problem if you’re not in a rush.
We saw a boat whose engine had broken get towed to Alderney last year. He’d called on the radio and asked politely of a very big sailboat and explained he could turn back to Guernsey but was tired having sailed all day to get there. His SOG had dropped to almost zero despite very good STW. He then sailed beautifully onto a buoy deep in Braye harbour when they untied him.

Thank you. Paean had an inboard (Beta 14) and could be left to run all day on it, if the wind drops. I guess that's the difference to Swift. The outboard drinks more per hour and the tank is smaller. OK I do have jerry cans but its not idea trying to refuel at sea. I guess about 4 - 5 hours motering is the range. Enough to get into and out of ports but not to passage make, should the weather not play ball.

 

[PhillM]

There is a limit to how far one wants to sail a small boat in one hop. Over 25 miles it becomes a chore. Whilst some suggest the Channel Islands one has to look at the distances involved.
Chbg to St Peter Port 45 Miles.( Yes I know about Dilette, but it is not an exit port) At 4 kts one is going to struggle to get to the Little Russel before the tide changes. St Peter Port to Lezardreiux is probably 50 miles & then coast hops are all 25 + miles & very tide constrained. Miss a tide & things can get very difficult.

Going from Chbg to the CIs & back into France involves the Schengan treaty so officially one has to go 70 miles to Roscoff having booked out out Chbg to go to the CIs the back in at Roscoff. 70 miles in a small boat is no joke if weather does not play ball. Tides are predictable, but weather is certainly not. The coast to L'aberwrach is dangerous. St Malo is a long way. There are other places to log in & out but certain restrictions apply which will not suit the cruising sailor that well.

I personally think that area is hard work for someone with a small boat & one has to decide where to leave it.
Anchoring is OK but if going to,say, Treguier, one wants to explore the place. Not sit & be surrounded by water up the river. Catch the tide wrong & a small outboard will not get one up the river to the marina.

I suggest that the Op sits down with some decent tide tables before making the final decision. He needs to be reasonable about what sort of sailing speed he is going to make. Then decide how long he wants to sail before getting tired. What crew etc & how they will feel. Where he wants to stop- anchor ( that will need a dinghy- will he tow it or pump it up every time he needs it or tow it & go slower) or spend money by marina hopping. Then join the dots with some sample passage plans to see if the destinations are really viable.
It is OK for forumites to just say "sail it" but they are not sitting in the cockpit, nackered, fed up, wet & looking at the crew pucking over the side, getting miserable by the day. It is not all about sailing. Arriving is just as important.

Yes, all very good points and well made. I am unlikely to have a crew for any longer passages. Singlehanded I am comfortable with 24 hours and plan between 3 and 4kn depending on expected wind direction. So, 70-90 miles is OK providing that I can plan to arrive in daylight and into a reasonably easy port.

I borght the 2024 Reeds today and plan to do exactly as you suggest.

A big thank you to everyone for all the ideas. I have plenty to occupy my mind over the next few weeks. Even if I end up doing more modest passages, I shall have a lot of fun dreaming (and planning) more adventouragus ones.

 

[johnalison]

Yes, all very good points and well made. I am unlikely to have a crew for any longer passages. Singlehanded I am comfortable with 24 hours and plan between 3 and 4kn depending on expected wind direction. So, 70-90 miles is OK providing that I can plan to arrive in daylight and into a reasonably easy port.

I borght the 2024 Reeds today and plan to do exactly as you suggest.

A big thank you to everyone for all the ideas. I have plenty to occupy my mind over the next few weeks. Even if I end up doing more modest passages, I shall have a lot of fun dreaming (and planning) more adventouragus ones.

4-5 hrs motoring doesn't give you much in reserve, and by today's standards puts the Continent largely out of reach. In the past of course sailors have cruise with little or no engine power, but generally in big heavy boats. I even met one crew who took three days to get from Rye to Dieppe, but few of us will encourage such a trip, even if adventurousness is to be admired. Somewhere not yet mentioned, I think is our own East Coast. This runs against my own advice not to fight the prevailing winds, but it should be enjoyable within your time scale, and by the time you have found you way round the Thames Estuary you will have earned the right to call yourself a sailor. The only obvious alternative is to sail to Newlyn and sit there waiting for decent weather to sail to the Isles of Scilly before returning disappointed like so many of your South Coast companions.