Newbridge Venturer Hull Survey Problems

[misterg]

I'm looking to buy my first boat, and have had an offer accepted on a
Newbridge Venturer (22' bilge keel) subject to survey.

The surveyor (fairly well respected) has identified blistering on the hull
(completely dry, hence not osmosis), but more importantly, flexing and
depression of the hull aft of the keels, sufficient to crack the gel coat
on one side (on the keel stubs and for about 200mm around). The area can be
seen flexing if the stern of the boat is lifted. The surveyor has
recommended that the boat be supported to take out the distortion, then the
hull strengthened with additional layers of glass and an internal
transverse stiffener, followed by grinding out the gel-coat cracking (& any
laminate that is also cracked) and re-building. In order to do this, it
will be necessary to cut out the interior for access.

If the vendor was to complete this work, we would proceed with the sale at
the agreed price, however the vendor considers the work unnecessary
("trailer damage"), and will only undertake the repair of the gel coat
cracking. The yard (Dickies in Bangor) are reluctant to quote for the work
as they need to cut away the interior to get an idea of what is involved,
and are dubious about being able to effect a repair that will prevent the
flexing. They have estimated upto £1500 for the work, but aren't keen to
take it on (this is on an £8.5k boat). Having contacted the owner's
association (NAVA), this seems to be an unusual fault for the Venturers.

We are still interested in the boat as it has new sails, engine,
instruments, etc. but without completing the work recommended by the
surveyor, we would be unable to insure the boat (it's nearly 20 years old).

What advice do you have? - should I take the boat on (with some reduction
in price) and sort the repair myself, or should I walk away ? Has anyone
had any experience of this fault with Venturers (Ventura's)?

All advice gratefully received.

Regards,

Andy

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

walk away

there will be another boat along any time soon

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk/TC_IrishCruise_2003_00.html>Irish Cruise</A>

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Oh and.....

It's winter, people who want shut of their boats are not looking forward to another 5 months of yard / storage costs, so you will have a negotiating lever before you even start talking to the owner.

You are not accepting PM's so I will put this here.....

I know of a boat in Pwllheli being dealt with by Partingtons Marine,

Never Ends Hurley 24ft 1970 Bilge Keel 24 £ 8500

I know this boat, she has been looked after as far as I can tell, might just be right up your street.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.partington-marine.co.uk/html/frameset.htm>Partingtons</A>

I even found a photo on one of my disks /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

** Disclaimer ** I am in no way connected with this sale or Partingtons.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk/TC_IrishCruise_2003_00.html>Irish Cruise</A>

 

[misterg]

Re: Oh and.....

I'm in North Wales (UK!)

I am looking for a boat on a trailer so that it can be stored at home ("Family" coastal cruising - Wife 2 in between) Would prefer a bilge keeler in case we end up at Conwy (not lifting keel, as we intend to leave the boat in the water). Will check out Partington's, as they have a few interesting boats listed. Need to check how heavy the Hurley is, but thanks for the lead.

Andy
(sorry, originally replied before your post was edited!)
<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by misterg on 01/11/2003 00:18 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[claudio]

Walk away, more trouble than what it's worth. It's a buyer's market and there are lots of boats around. Don't take on somebody elses problems. Good luck.


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[ex-Gladys]

Had a similar situation ourselves this year. Saw a nice 78 boat for about £7000, spotted a problem with compression of the coach roof under the mast step, had it surveyed and found much worse underwater. Felt really unhappy about walking away, but what everyone else says is right. Another will come along. Walk away definitely

<hr width=100% size=1>Larry Botheras

Anderson 26 "Amber"

 

[AndCur]

My advise would be walk away. It is a buyers market and there are always lots of
yachts for sale,so why buy one with problems!!!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[andy_wilson]

Blistering

This will cost you money to get fixed and WILL cause someone in the future to be sufficiently concerned not to pay YOU full price for the boat, so this needs factoring in.

Keel depression.

This is not uncommon, neither is the need for floors to be reinforced in the way proposed. What is slightly unusual is for stress cracks to appear in the gel-coat leading to the conclusion that it has been run aground quite hard (or pounded) and this becomes a structural issue (and one therefore for the insurers). Even if trailering was the cause, the fault still exists. Depressions at the rear however do point strongly to grounding.

The fact that there is an inner moulding compounds the repair problem, hence no firm quote from Dickies. The surveyor however should be able to specify the repair (stringer material and thickness of lay-up). For instance I would have thought that for the worse side they need to be prepared to drop the keel, grind back outside and inside to lay up a further 2 layers of mat, plus a foam stringer laminated over to add strength.

I had a similar situation on a Sadler 34 that revealed the same issue (amongst others). Whilst at first it hurt to pay the surveyor and walk away, I now own an excellent alternative and to be honest, am thanking my lucky stars that I resisted negotiating closer to the asking price than my original low offer that did reflect the true cost to restore.

Try the Westerly Owners Association, Centaurs suffer keel problems because of the original spec. and the angle that they splay when aground.

Don't forget when (if) the repair is done, it may well remain visible in the future and may also affect a future purchaser or their surveyor.

Walk away with a smile and the assurance that if they are prepared to cut the price deeply, you will reconsider.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[misterg]

Alternative boat suggestions

Thanks to all for the advice - it seems pretty clear!

Regarding the "stress cracks" in this area, they scraped off with the antifouling (!). Still the issue of the hull depression / lack of stiffness, and the blistering, though.

I've posted the following on uk.rec.sailing (not sure how much overlap there is)

While in "walking away" mood, does anyone have any suggestions for similar
boats? Key requirements are:

4 berth; bilge keels, etc. for drying mooring; separate heads compartment;
trailable for winter storage at home / short-cut to Scotland or Brittany; Outboard in well preferred; no longer than 23' to fit in drive; suitable for "family" cruising N. Wales coast / Irish Sea (in due course); Me: novice (windsurfer!), wife: dinghy
sailor; Oh, and budget is to be sailing for less than £10k....

Regards,

Andy


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[fjweaver]

Re: Alternative boat suggestions

We sold our Venturer earlier this year. THe first survey done on her showed some internal stress crazing in the molding. The quote for the work was exhorbitant & the buyer walked away. A second survey noted the problem but didn't see it as a problem and no work was recommended on it as it wasn't deemed to be structural.
The first surveyor was well known locally for covering his backside & the second had a bit of knowledge of the Venturers and knew about the flexing and didn't see it as a problem.
They're a nice boat if you get a decent one - maybe get a 2nd opinion?

<hr width=100% size=1>