LittleSister
Well-Known Member
That's a bit unfair isn't it? Everyone was happily parading their prejudices, and you come along and spoil it all with some actual relevant experience!
Newbridge Pioneer Pilot
- Thread starter Chuckle54
- Start date
That's a bit unfair isn't it? Everyone was happily parading their prejudices, and you come along and spoil it all with some actual relevant experience!
Seajet
...
Little Sister,
so apparently by your reckoning my sailing among / past these boats including repeated exposure to one on a neighbouring mooring was not relevant at all, and of course a boat with an extra bit on top goes ( as badly ) to windward just the same as the one without; I suggest before you call ' prejudice ' you have a look at hull shapes both above and below the waterline, coachroofs, keel shapes and weights and results.
I'm sure you have been there including looking from underneath as boats are in the hoist and noticed all these things so as to counter what I say ?
One or two owners happy with ' great galleys ' do not make a commended design - what other boats have they sailed to compare with ?
Believe me I'd much rather talk about wonderful boats like Contessa 32's, Falmouth Working Boats, Memory 19's, She31B's, and surprisingly good ones like Centaurs and Trident 24's etc, but as someone has asked about a boat I - and many others - know to be less than wonderful I think it is the point of these forums to mention it.
so apparently by your reckoning my sailing among / past these boats including repeated exposure to one on a neighbouring mooring was not relevant at all, and of course a boat with an extra bit on top goes ( as badly ) to windward just the same as the one without; I suggest before you call ' prejudice ' you have a look at hull shapes both above and below the waterline, coachroofs, keel shapes and weights and results.
I'm sure you have been there including looking from underneath as boats are in the hoist and noticed all these things so as to counter what I say ?
One or two owners happy with ' great galleys ' do not make a commended design - what other boats have they sailed to compare with ?
Believe me I'd much rather talk about wonderful boats like Contessa 32's, Falmouth Working Boats, Memory 19's, She31B's, and surprisingly good ones like Centaurs and Trident 24's etc, but as someone has asked about a boat I - and many others - know to be less than wonderful I think it is the point of these forums to mention it.
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steve yates
Well-Known Member
You like it, it's tough, it will look after you, it's a great price, it's in good condition, it has a NEW engine! It has loads of space, Your wife LOVES it.
Buy the damn boat and go enjoy yourselves
Buy the damn boat and go enjoy yourselves
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Mate of mine had leakiest stanchion bases on his one.
Chuckle54
Well-Known Member
Yje boat goes back in the water in early March and I'll have an oppotunity to try her out. I accept that she's unlikely to perform well going to windward.
I could of course go below, engage the wheel, start the new engine, power up the new and unused eberspacher, get the wife to pour me a glass of wine..............
I could of course go below, engage the wheel, start the new engine, power up the new and unused eberspacher, get the wife to pour me a glass of wine..............
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
There's nothing wrong with comfort on a boat or giving swmbo what she wants. You spend a substantial amount on time at anchor/marina etc. and if swmbo doesn't enjoy boating, you won't either. A cramped, wet boat, even if cutting through the waters at 7kn to windward, won't be a pleasing experience. Designing a boat is a compromise between performance and comfort. Only you can decide which is most important.
Topcat47
Well-Known Member
Sounds good to me.....
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
And all for £5,000? You better had buy, Chuckle...or I will! Right now, the only off-putting aspect is that she's not in the Solent.
Seajet
...
Really Dan ? When you can get a well equipped re-engined Centaur - which will actually sail to places - for that ?
Better to stick with the Osprey then make the jump to a Contessa 32 !
Better to stick with the Osprey then make the jump to a Contessa 32 !
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Thanks Andy. But after decades admiring the Contessa 32, I realised last year that their beauty and performance will never atone for that dark cramped 'traditional' feel, below decks. Not for what they cost. I'll continue to admire, but not envy.
On the other hand, a £5,000 Pioneer Pilot represents huge value. Like a motor-home, it's comfortable and versatile, fun in all seasons, even in our typically terrible climate...unlike my Osprey, or any boat that requires the crew to sit outdoors. It's a smart choice.
I like Centaurs, but if I had one, she too would rest ashore until I wanted to sail outdoors, sometime in April...or possibly May...but if I had the Pioneer, I'd be typing this on board right now, in January, steering behind glass with the heater on...because I could.
I may end up cowering from the rain in the cabin of a Leisure 17 this year, but only because interior helms are so rare, and pricey.
On the other hand, a £5,000 Pioneer Pilot represents huge value. Like a motor-home, it's comfortable and versatile, fun in all seasons, even in our typically terrible climate...unlike my Osprey, or any boat that requires the crew to sit outdoors. It's a smart choice.
I like Centaurs, but if I had one, she too would rest ashore until I wanted to sail outdoors, sometime in April...or possibly May...but if I had the Pioneer, I'd be typing this on board right now, in January, steering behind glass with the heater on...because I could.
I may end up cowering from the rain in the cabin of a Leisure 17 this year, but only because interior helms are so rare, and pricey.
Seajet
...
Dan,
nb just because one is surrounded by windows, it doesn't mean you can see through sails especially the headsail, so one still has to be actively up and about ; I have a remote control on the autohelm but I've only ever found it useful for impressing girls and grabbing a quick snog between tacks !
On the A22 the answer is good waterproofs, and I've often wondered about one of those small sexy sprayhoods just over the main hatch a la Swan, but I'd never go for the windage and look of a full width sprayhood - and if really caught out in a big wind, a sprayhood let alone a grp greenhouse will very likely render the boat unable to go to windward, I've been in such conditions and I'm certain we couldn't have kept going if there was a sprayhood or pilot bit on top.
nb just because one is surrounded by windows, it doesn't mean you can see through sails especially the headsail, so one still has to be actively up and about ; I have a remote control on the autohelm but I've only ever found it useful for impressing girls and grabbing a quick snog between tacks !
On the A22 the answer is good waterproofs, and I've often wondered about one of those small sexy sprayhoods just over the main hatch a la Swan, but I'd never go for the windage and look of a full width sprayhood - and if really caught out in a big wind, a sprayhood let alone a grp greenhouse will very likely render the boat unable to go to windward, I've been in such conditions and I'm certain we couldn't have kept going if there was a sprayhood or pilot bit on top.
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
In those conditions it's time to pack up, put the engine on and go home!
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
Most of the Newbridge range lack performance but have good accommodation for their size. The exception is the Corribee which has good performance but is renowned for its cramped accomodation and wetness.
Lucky Duck
Well-Known Member
Seajet
...
Assuming one is not trying to get to home which is to windward, and the harbours to leeward are not subject to dangerous surf and /or tidal restrictions, so there comes a time real sailing boats have to sail well to windward; engines on half-hearted motor sailors are prone to snags like the coolant inlets becoming above the water level when heeled, and it takes a lot of spine - jarring power in blinding spray to push a sailing boat with even reefed sails directly to windward.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
I like your energetic rebuttal against my perception of the virtues of motor-sailers, Andy, but I reckon different boats excel in different uses. Undoubtedly, a tallish low-freeboard sloop is the ideal efficient form, for fine fast upwind sailing, in photogenic weather...
...but, on the majority of days in an English year, when many wouldn't choose to put a toe outdoors, a boat which offers passengers and skipper the same kind of protection and warmth as a Range Rover, definitely has appeal!
As I type, some filthy sleety rain is hammering on my window. It was doing that yesterday, too. I think it rains more often than it doesn't. Actually I've only been rained on once while sailing, back in May. It was truly foul. And I was dressed to get wet - in a wetsuit!
I'd like a Soling, or an Etchells, for glorious summer days in the Solent. I wouldn't, couldn't claim she was any use except in summer, but for a few days each week, for a few weeks each year, I'm sure I'd be in heaven. For the rest of the year, I want a motor-sailer.
I think motor-sailer mind-set is misunderstood. Most sailing men are too hard-bitten, too reluctant to accept the upsides with the downsides, of high windage. The point is, poor upwind sailing doesn't matter, once you can relax like a displacement motoryachtsman, and just steam quietly into the wind at not many revs (and you won't need many revs, to beat most sailing boats' VMG).
It won't suit the sailor who associates fuel with roaring pace. But any boat that can sail, and can be driven from indoors in cold dirty weather, and offers good views from a bright interior on a grey day, and can even dry out upright...that's a fine versatile bit of design.
...but, on the majority of days in an English year, when many wouldn't choose to put a toe outdoors, a boat which offers passengers and skipper the same kind of protection and warmth as a Range Rover, definitely has appeal!
As I type, some filthy sleety rain is hammering on my window. It was doing that yesterday, too. I think it rains more often than it doesn't. Actually I've only been rained on once while sailing, back in May. It was truly foul. And I was dressed to get wet - in a wetsuit!
I'd like a Soling, or an Etchells, for glorious summer days in the Solent. I wouldn't, couldn't claim she was any use except in summer, but for a few days each week, for a few weeks each year, I'm sure I'd be in heaven. For the rest of the year, I want a motor-sailer.
I think motor-sailer mind-set is misunderstood. Most sailing men are too hard-bitten, too reluctant to accept the upsides with the downsides, of high windage. The point is, poor upwind sailing doesn't matter, once you can relax like a displacement motoryachtsman, and just steam quietly into the wind at not many revs (and you won't need many revs, to beat most sailing boats' VMG).
It won't suit the sailor who associates fuel with roaring pace. But any boat that can sail, and can be driven from indoors in cold dirty weather, and offers good views from a bright interior on a grey day, and can even dry out upright...that's a fine versatile bit of design.
Arcady
Well-Known Member
Couldn’ have put it better myself, Dancrane
Seajet
...
I like your energetic rebuttal against my perception of the virtues of motor-sailers, Andy, but I reckon different boats excel in different uses. Undoubtedly, a tallish low-freeboard sloop is the ideal efficient form, for fine fast upwind sailing, in photogenic weather...
...but, on the majority of days in an English year, when many wouldn't choose to put a toe outdoors, a boat which offers passengers and skipper the same kind of protection and warmth as a Range Rover, definitely has appeal!
As I type, some filthy sleety rain is hammering on my window. It was doing that yesterday, too. I think it rains more often than it doesn't. Actually I've only been rained on once while sailing, back in May. It was truly foul. And I was dressed to get wet - in a wetsuit!
I'd like a Soling, or an Etchells, for glorious summer days in the Solent. I wouldn't, couldn't claim she was any use except in summer, but for a few days each week, for a few weeks each year, I'm sure I'd be in heaven. For the rest of the year, I want a motor-sailer.
I think motor-sailer mind-set is misunderstood. Most sailing men are too hard-bitten, too reluctant to accept the upsides with the downsides, of high windage. The point is, poor upwind sailing doesn't matter, once you can relax like a displacement motoryachtsman, and just steam quietly into the wind at not many revs (and you won't need many revs, to beat most sailing boats' VMG).
It won't suit the sailor who associates fuel with roaring pace. But any boat that can sail, and can be driven from indoors in cold dirty weather, and offers good views from a bright interior on a grey day, and can even dry out upright...that's a fine versatile bit of design.
Dan,
to put it very simply ' you don't get owt for nowt .'
Even the later Southerly's look quite good above the waterline, but when the underneath is seen in a hoist etc they're pretty horrifying to a good sailor, and I know you're one.
Take that photo in your post, now imagine it caught out - and it will happen to anyone - trying to beat into a F6+...
Seeing as Newbridge boats had a reputation for rudders falling off, I'd also be doubtful if the engine installation re seacocks or anything else would stand up either.
If you want a motorsailor which is hopeless at sailing, be honest about it and buy a Fisher / Freeward;
Or a good well made sailing boat which happens to motor well and offers some protection from the elements while stll keeping a lookout - a re-engined Centaur with a sprayhood.
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steve yates
Well-Known Member
This is a motorsailer for 5k, in good nick Andy.
If you like sailing to be out on the water and go exploring places, it's perfect. And you'll be out A LOT.
If you like sailing for the thrill and techninical expertise of getting best out of it, maybe look elsewhere.
If you like sailing to be out on the water and go exploring places, it's perfect. And you'll be out A LOT.
If you like sailing for the thrill and techninical expertise of getting best out of it, maybe look elsewhere.
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