Newbridge Pioneer Pilot

[Seajet]

Dan,
a friend of mine got a pristine, late model Centaur with heaps of electronics, new sprayhood, reinforced keels, good sails and reefing kit and a new Nanni 3 cylinder engine for £6K - I wouldn't normally be too bothered about engines but having sailed a fair bit on my dad's late model Centaur with the original Volvo eyeball - rattling thumper " She cannae take it Cap'n ! " the Nanni is turbine smooth.

Between the two boats, the only way I'd go aboard the Newbridge job would be to clamber across to the Centaur.

 

[Joker]

" Newbridge boats had a reputation for rudders falling off"

That's a little unfair - rather like saying never buy a Bavaria cos their keels fall off.

 

[Seajet]

Joker,

I've only heard of keels dropping off happening once or twice on Bavaria's, and at least one of those sounded like the result of previous groundings and unfair shear loadings.

The rudders on Newbridge boats had a bit of a rash of falling-off-itis in the 1980's well known at the time - but no I can't supply examples offhand...

 

[Chuckle54]

Well we had another look at the Pioneer Pilot. OH is still in love with it. It may not be the bargain it first appeared - owner claims never to have used the wheel in 12 years and has fitted an extended tiller to shelter under the sprayhood. A cursory inspection revealed a lot of hydraulic fluid, a small pool of it. Likewise the heater which turns out to be a Wallas kerosene heater with ducted hot air. He must have used it at least once in 12 years? A replacement is over £1k. Need to find out more about the wheel hydraulics.
We did take a look at another yacht, a rather wonderful Laurent Giles Normandy class owned by an equally wonderful elderly couple. The yacht is named Camay - and used to be bright pink in the 60's. Apparently a camay soap promo yacht with close associations to Katie Boyle.

"you'll be lovelier every day when you use pink camay"

 

[Tam Lin]

So he has not used the steering wheel in 12 years and has extended the tiller! That tells you something, probably that the hydraulic steering will cost a fortune to fix, if you can get the parts! He certainly couldn't afford / be arsed to do it!
There are well looked after boats out there, it is just a matter of finding them!

 

[wombat88]

I looked over a Newbridge Pilot last year on Hayling Island. It was junk rigged, had been owned by the same people for decades and needed new engine mountings (what else I wonder?). Huge but rather unuseable interior. Internal helm position with poor forward visibility.

£2.5k. It wasn't in that bad shape but I just couldn't face it. I've had some truly awful boats in the past but this one I decided I could never love...

Then I decided I wanted one of these:

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=552366

Then I decided I would go bonkers in something that didn't at least make some effort to sail properly...and put the whole accommodation thing further down the 'wants' list.

 

[DownWest]

I looked over a Newbridge Pilot last year on Hayling Island. It was junk rigged, had been owned by the same people for decades and needed new engine mountings (what else I wonder?). Huge but rather unuseable interior. Internal helm position with poor forward visibility.

£2.5k. It wasn't in that bad shape but I just couldn't face it. I've had some truly awful boats in the past but this one I decided I could never love...

Then I decided I wanted one of these:

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=552366

Then I decided I would go bonkers in something that didn't at least make some effort to sail properly...and put the whole accommodation thing further down the 'wants' list.

That is not a bad boat an VERY cheap. Engine looks OK and the boat is worth a decent inspection.
Disclaimer... The old man designed for Cox and tried to get some decent sailing performance out of the brief.

 

[wombat88]

Don't get me wrong, for a small motor sailor I reckon the Cox is an excellent device, I've done a fair bit of research into them and been over a few in detail. Just turned out that on reflection it was 'too much' boat for me and in the end chose something much lighter.

 

[Greenheart]

Dan, a friend of mine got a pristine, late model Centaur with heaps of electronics, new sprayhood, reinforced keels, good sails and reefing kit and a new Nanni 3 cylinder engine for £6K

Sorry Andy, don't know why I've taken a week to reply. Your friend did well there, I envy him. In fact, since you posted, I started a Centaur thread, discussing some rather optimistic pricing by an East Coast yard.

It doesn't have a wheelhouse, but in other respects I'm definitely won-over by the old Westerly. I've always liked the Achilles 24 too, much more of a sailor's boat I reckon, but far less accommodating, and I'd be sorry to buy a boat with a cabin that always made me feel ready go ashore. So as long as I have the Osprey for thrills, I reckon I could live with a relaxed roomy cruiser.

But I'd want a way for the Centaur to be steered or autohelmed, at least under power, from a place of proper shelter. I know a good sprayhood is handy for keeping spume and even green water out of the companionway, but it won't keep the crew warm or dry on a cold wet breezy day - and since I'd buy a Centaur more for comfort than sport, I'd expect more comfort than a sprayhood can provide.

I reckon it's not beyond good judgement and basic practical carpentry, GRP and steelwork skills, to draw and build a removable hard-top which would allow a Centaur helm to steer while seated high in the companionway, with biggish glass panes on all sides.

The other week, you mentioned the little sprayhoods that Swan companionways used to have, slim enough to minimise windage...

...I don't see why a bolt-on helm-shelter can't be drawn along those same minimalist lines...just needs to be high enough so the helmsman needn't keep popping outside for a better view, it needs to be fully enclosable so the helm can enjoy the warmth from the cabin heating, and it must be entirely removable for summer, because it's a goddamned carbuncle and we do have eyes.

How hard can it be?

 

[MOBY2]

Seem to remember there being an article in PBO about building such a thing and there was one for sale with a similar attachment so it can be done if that's any help.

 

[Chuckle54]

Well, if anyone is interested, we finally have found a yacht, made an offer which was accepted after a bit of haggling and are now the proud owners of a Westerly GK29!
She was surveyed just over a year ago with all issues attended to, complete upgraded and integrated electronics, great sail wardrobe, 6 foot headroom in the saloon with a not too bad galley. Ticks all the boxes for both of us. Roll on Spring.

 

[LittleSister]

Happy sailing!

 

[Greenheart]

Roll on Spring.

That's very appropriate, this freezing day in mid-March!

I'm as happy for you as I am for myself, looking forward at six months of (hopefully) better weather in the dinghy.

The GK seems to be a fine yacht, but couldn't easily be more different from the Pioneer Pilot.

At the start of the sailing season I'm always inclined to give our climate the benefit of the doubt, and all sorts of yachts which necessitate the crew sitting outdoors, grow very appealing...

...then on various midsummer days, I'm reminded how unreliable and disappointing our summers can be, and feel glad not to have invested in a spirit of optimism.

Of course, with that glum realism at the forefront of my mind, I may never buy a cabin boat at all.

Have a great summer, post some photos here! :encouragement:

 

[Marlingschap]

I have had a pioneer pilot for 4 years now and am competely in love with the design of this boat, how it sails and what it offers as an experience. I have made some modifications to the boat, as I tend to sail singlehanded quite alot - all lines to cockpit and removal of the inside steering assembly. I now have a 26 foot yacht that has great headroom inside, a draft of .9 metres, easy to sail, brilliant 18hp engine, very satisfying sailing capability and considerable amount of positive comments from people who take a closer look at the boat. I have fitted remote ST2000+ autotiller set up, so it can be steered from inside. The layout side is so clever, you don’t feel cramped, the galley and heads are well positioned and the chart table I designed to replace the steering wheel inside provides very useful additional cooking area. I am looking forward to lots of cruising in the next few years and have no doubts aout her seaworthiness. For the price, I have yet to find a better 26 footer. Admittedly, this is one of the last ones made at the NB Yachts factory, with beautiful teak toe rail and rubbing strake and lots of thick fibreglass in the hull. Looking at some other Pioneer Pilots which were finished by owners, they leave a lot to be desired but they can still be improved to great effect.

 

[Marlingschap]

Hi, did you get this boat? I own one and am completely in love with it.

Rick

 

[Seajet]

I have had a pioneer pilot for 4 years now and am competely in love with the design of this boat, how it sails and what it offers as an experience. I have made some modifications to the boat, as I tend to sail singlehanded quite alot - all lines to cockpit and removal of the inside steering assembly. I now have a 26 foot yacht that has great headroom inside, a draft of .9 metres, easy to sail, brilliant 18hp engine, very satisfying sailing capability and considerable amount of positive comments from people who take a closer look at the boat. I have fitted remote ST2000+ autotiller set up, so it can be steered from inside. The layout side is so clever, you don’t feel cramped, the galley and heads are well positioned and the chart table I designed to replace the steering wheel inside provides very useful additional cooking area. I am looking forward to lots of cruising in the next few years and have no doubts aout her seaworthiness. For the price, I have yet to find a better 26 footer. Admittedly, this is one of the last ones made at the NB Yachts factory, with beautiful teak toe rail and rubbing strake and lots of thick fibreglass in the hull. Looking at some other Pioneer Pilots which were finished by owners, they leave a lot to be desired but they can still be improved to great effect.

While not to my personal taste, if she suits you ( Sir ! ) that's great.

Do try to have good reefing - at least two rows - and storm jib practised and relatively easily set up, some day you'll need them.

 

[DownWest]

Hi, did you get this boat? I own one and am completely in love with it.

Rick

See post 51

 

[steve yates]

Well, that was an enjoyable and interesting read back through Thx for letting us know the ending, and enjoy your westerly, they sound like very slick boats.

 

[soleil d`or]

As a Newbridge Pioneer Pilot owner of 10 years I would like to say that there has been a load of tosh and misinformation written on this thread.
"seajet" is obviously a fan of the 1960`s designed Centaur but I can tell you that having had one I would much prefer the late 1980`s Bill Dixon (Moody) designed Pioneer. I had new sails 4 years ago with the main having a longer foot and bigger roach and regularly leave Centaurs in my wake.
As for motor sailing I do not have any trouble with the 18hp VP or the seacock whatever the weather.
I would not buy one for racing round the cans or for long distance sailing but for 30 mile hops along the Devon & Cornwall coast between Torbay and the Scillies it is great.
I am not keen to use the inside helm when sailing but when the weather is bad or I just want to potter about up an estuary its lovely to be able be at the wheel down below.
Contrary to what has been said there is no history of Pioneers (1986-1989) losing their rudders, possibly it was the Navigators.
My wife also enjoys the bonus of the generous accommodation , headroom and of course the galley.

 

[paws]

I Have dug out my log on credentials from many years ago to comment on this thread, that is so full of inaccurate information, and prejudice that I suspect is mainly from folks who have little or no experience of the Newbridge Pioneer Pilot, or perhaps sailing in general.... or both!.

Like some of the other well informed folk here on this thread, I have owned my Pioneer pilot for many years (approx 20) sailed her many thousands of miles along the south Coast of England, across the channel and along the Northern Coast of France down to the Channel Islands and also along the East coast of England and over to the Netherlands ( including delightful trips up the Nord Sea Canal to the Six Haven in Amsterdam. It was only the approach of advancing years and a general deterioration in health that caused me to sell her.

Some folks have commented on beating to windward with this 26 foot bilge keeler in F6 conditions in order to get home with dangerous shores and harbours to leeward..... they would be better engaged in learning how to interpret barometer readings, elementary weather forecasting, understanding and implementing proper passage planning and suitable sailing techniques for coping safely with inclement weather.

Understanding how to use the Boom Vang ( kicking strap) the importance of flattening the main, including use of the flattener or important steps in pulling down the first/second reef and general sail setting is pivotal in obtaining satisfactory performance from these boats,

My boat had the twin cylinder volvo 18 HP engine that never missed a beat during my ownership( however maintenance was always taken seriously by me, not only of engine but all associated gear, rigging, water cooling. sea cocks, harnesses, lifejackets, gas installation etc.

I never used the boat for sailing instruction ( I am an RYA Dept of Trade Yachtmaster Instructor) as I considered it just a trifle too small to be suitable for economically running Yachtmaster courses, preferring larger craft... Contessa 32 , F&C 44 etc.

I had my boat rigged for single handed sailing (able to pull down reefs without leaving the cockpit) electronic auto pilot at the ready. and the inside helm position ready to activate by merely slipping in the drive pin (no fancy hydraulics!) even in the depths of winter I could feel snug and the inside helm position with electronic instruments and throttle/gearcontrol to hand, comfortable armchair( bolted down) windscreen wipers on, staysail rolled down to half size, main with two slabs in and sheeted hard in, pasty heating in the oven with kettle on the hob and catalytic heater giving out its wonderful warmth and dull red glow...... Magic... Field of view from the inside helm position was excellent, facilitating a good all round lookout. I only generally used the inside steering position in really cold winter conditions....... Properly sailed in the summer from the cockpit the performance was not bad, quite reasonable in fact, leeway not excessive ( considering the draft was less than a metre)

My sole reason for joining this thread( despite the OP having said that he has bought a GK 29 is an attempt to put the record straight in regard to some of the considerable and undeserved comments made by the uninformed. inexperienced contributors to this thread.
Regards to all and of course fair winds and calm seas for us all of us in 2021 and beyond.
paws