Newbridge Pioneer Pilot

[Chuckle54]

In our search for a replacement to our folkboat we had decided to stick to wood....or so I thought. The other half suggested that it might be prudent to take a look at some yachts closer to home.
So off to our local harbour to take a look at a Colvic UFO 27. She's been on the hard for several years but well looked after. The price is very good and even includes a cradle. Must admit I was quite taken by it but my wife was not impressed with the interior and even declared it depressing.
We're due to look at a MG 30 tomorrow, again grp and again a good price with newish sails and lots of gear. As we were about to leave we noticed an odd looking yacht with a for sale notice on it. Might as well give the owner a ring. He was there within 20 minutes. Turns out it is a Newbridge Pioneer Pilot.
My wife fell in love with it and with the practicalities of owning one - bilge keels, cavernous open plan layout (well compared to a folkboat) deep cockpit, wheel in the cabin etc etc
Has anyone experience of these? I realise that she was designed by Bill Dixon so hopefully she might just sail ok?
The owner has had her for 8 years and in that time she really has been used for the odd fishing trip. I suspect the sails may never have been raised. She had a new engine last year - a twin cylinder Vetus but its only the 12hp version. Apparently the original was 18hp so is she underpowered?
The price is ridiculously low.

 

[Tranona]

The price will be low because they are not desirable boats - even when new. Not sure the designer was particularly proud of his efforts. The design was the ultimate in how to cram in as much accommodation as possible in any given length and then build it to sell at the lowest possible price. So, big, lots of berths and not well built. 12hp is not enough for what is in effect a motor sailer, even if on the sail end of the type.

If you liked the Folkboat, cannot imagine you liking this except as a waterborne caravan. there are much better boats of that size which are more spacious than a Folkboat, but without going for increased length you have to move away from the narrow, long keeled low freeboard types - even if they are GRP.

 

[LittleSister]

That the wife likes it is an advantage not to be dismissed lightly!

They have been described as having 'respectable' sailing performance - it won't be sparkling, but I doubt it's that bad.

It is a motor-sailer in the sense it has an inside steering position and some extra windage, but the same hull was used as a sailing boat, so it's not at all the motor boat with sails type of thing.

From reading a range of things about them over the years, it seems to me Newbridge was generally quite capable of a decent quality build, but quality control was patchy and/or corners were cut when they were struggling financially.

12hp will be adequate, and no more than that, but a new motor is a considerable advantage.

 

[Marakei]

I have some experience of Newbridge boats because I'm interested in the Chinese junk rig and they offered it as an option on their designs.

I visited a Voyager recently and was astonished by the interior space. I couldn't believe it was only a 23 foot boat! Regarding quality control, I've seen some rough finishing, but many of the boats seem to have given decades of fairly trouble free service.

I imagine a Folkboat would sail the pants off any Newbridge design you care to name, but like your wife, I might be prepared to deal with that.

There are several reviews of the Pioneer Pilot on Preloved, some of which mention performance with different engines:

http://community.preloved.co.uk/reviews/show/1623/newbridge-pioneer-pilot.html

 

[VicS]

In our search for a replacement to our folkboat we had decided to stick to wood....or so I thought. The other half suggested that it might be prudent to take a look at some yachts closer to home.
So off to our local harbour to take a look at a Colvic UFO 27. She's been on the hard for several years but well looked after. The price is very good and even includes a cradle. Must admit I was quite taken by it but my wife was not impressed with the interior and even declared it depressing.
We're due to look at a MG 30 tomorrow, again grp and again a good price with newish sails and lots of gear. As we were about to leave we noticed an odd looking yacht with a for sale notice on it. Might as well give the owner a ring. He was there within 20 minutes. Turns out it is a Newbridge Pioneer Pilot.
My wife fell in love with it and with the practicalities of owning one - bilge keels, cavernous open plan layout (well compared to a folkboat) deep cockpit, wheel in the cabin etc etc
Has anyone experience of these? I realise that she was designed by Bill Dixon so hopefully she might just sail ok?
The owner has had her for 8 years and in that time she really has been used for the odd fishing trip. I suspect the sails may never have been raised. She had a new engine last year - a twin cylinder Vetus but its only the 12hp version. Apparently the original was 18hp so is she underpowered?
The price is ridiculously low.

That's it then Done deal i would say

 

[Chuckle54]

some widely divergent opinions there! I spent a good 40 minutes pouring over the boat and to my untrained eye the build quality looked OK. These boats seem to on the market for 10k. The asking price for this one is exactly half that and with a new engine. The guy selling it is simply too old and infirm to use it and just wants rid. It does resemble a caravan.
I think I need to take a long hard honest look at how we sail. The idea of the seaworthy classic yacht capable of sailing off over the horizon really does appeal. The reality is that we are both too busy working and overburdened with family commitments to do more than snatch a few hours in the day. Neither of us are getting any younger - tho the old fellah selling the Pioneer did think my wife was my daughter! The folkboat is exhilarating to sail but we do end up bruised and battered and usually wet.
I can understand the attraction of the Pioneer for my wife. It seems a very civilised boat. I can imagine relaxing on the estuary with a glass of wine watching the world drift buy or motoring home in the warmth and comfort of the cabin. Am I ready for a floating caravan? I do qualify for a state pension in 12 months. Bollocks

 

[Tam Lin]

If you are sure about a replacement boat and think that this might fit then give it a try. At the price you are going to pay you won’t lose much if you decide that it is not for you and sell it on. You may need to adapt your sailing style but at your age you may have to do do anyway in order to keep enjoying it!

 

[MOBY2]

Have you looked at a Trident 24, more a classical look with reasonable space below and don't sail to shabbily, come in fin or triple keel and reasonable cockpit and well built, have a google.... Should out sail a newbride been t not got the space below of one, might fit your bill but good luck with whatever you choose and keep us posted.

 

[Chuckle54]

If you are sure about a replacement boat and think that this might fit then give it a try. At the price you are going to pay you won’t lose much if you decide that it is not for you and sell it on. You may need to adapt your sailing style but at your age you may have to do do anyway in order to keep enjoying it!

I'll have you know I'm still in my prime. Why only last month I was likened to Jack Sparrow. We were motoring into the harbour in our 64 year old wooden yacht and as we passed a group of trawlermen one of them called out "F*** me, it's Jack Sparrow. I took his remark for the compliment it was no doubt meant to be.
I will admit that these days my knees can play up.......then there's my back.......and the left hip..........

 

[Tam Lin]

I'll have you know I'm still in my prime. Why only last month I was likened to Jack Sparrow. We were motoring into the harbour in our 64 year old wooden yacht and as we passed a group of trawlermen one of them called out "F*** me, it's Jack Sparrow. I took his remark for the compliment it was no doubt meant to be.
I will admit that these days my knees can play up.......then there's my back.......and the left hip..........

Sounds like me!

 

[ghostlymoron]

Trident is a triple Keeler and probably won't dry out upright on sand.

Have you looked at a Trident 24, more a classical look with reasonable space below and don't sail to shabbily, come in fin or triple keel and reasonable cockpit and well built, have a google.... Should out sail a newbride been t not got the space below of one, might fit your bill but good luck with whatever you choose and keep us posted.

 

[Seajet]

ghostlymoron,

the Trident 24 was available with fin, triple or lift keels; I expect Moby 2 is aware his triple keeler dries out on sand happily upright as I've been with him when he did it.

This is about the only time the Newbridge Pioneer will be mentioned in the same sentence as a Trident, the latter is extremely solidly built, looks good, is seaworthy, sails very well for a triple keeler and is a genuine sailor's boat.

I knew a couple of guys with a Pioneer Pilot, which sadly sailed like it looked; the great feature it offered according to them was " it's got a lovely kitchen " sic !

So it's not surprising the OP's wife was ensnared by that sort of interior, I and others have always called them ' boat show boats ' - they seem spiffing standing on carpet inside a big heated hall, less so when one is trying to beat into a F5 +.

 

[MOBY2]

Hi, think the difference is literally about an inch when we block her up in the yard on a flatfish surface so normally mud, sand shingle she doesn't settle too badly ... probably most dependent on ground density, so a patch one side harder the other ... but that would be the same with a bilge keeler as well, as I say just a suggestion that may fit the bill for Mr and Mrs Sparrow .... entirely up to them and good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[jwilson]

Have you looked at a Trident 24, more a classical look with reasonable space below and don't sail to shabbily, come in fin or triple keel and reasonable cockpit and well built, have a google.... Should out sail a newbride been t not got the space below of one, might fit your bill but good luck with whatever you choose and keep us posted.

If Mrs Chuckle liked the space of a Pioneer Pilot I doubt she'd think much of a Trident 24 interior - about a third of the volume: can't stand upright etc. I've looked at a couple of Pioneer Pilots in detail, one in pretty good order and one in very poor condition: with balsa in sandwich coachroof and coachroof sides clearly wet/rotting. The good one we sold through our brokerage some years ago - photos at http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/pioneer-pilot-26/pioneer-pilot-26.htm (the project one we declined to list).

For what it was ( tubby bilgekeeler with high topsides) it should sail reasonably well and I can understand the appeal if you get a good one. A large part of that appeal is the interior helm position. Bill Dixon was not aiming for "performance" but for comfortable accommodation, which is why so many people like his Moodys. I'd have thought a newish 12 hp would be better than any of the original engines - AFAIK they were typically sold new with a 9 hp Volvo MD2003 as the standard engine, with a 14 hp Bukh or 18 hp Volvo as options..

 

[MOBY2]

Hi, no absolutely right not the same amount of space at all was July st putting it forward as a compromise between the folkboat and the new bridge and sure the latter will win out if the decision is purely one based on space below, as long as they are happy with their purchase that's all the matters ��

 

[Chuckle54]

We do realise that there are most likely umpteen models of yacht which would suit our purposes admirably. Unfortunately within a 200mile radius there just arent that many yachts up for sale. I believe there are about 30 yachts listed on Apollo Duck between Tyne and Wear and Edinburgh, the majority of which are far beyond our budget.
This morning we've just made a 150 mile round trip in a snow blizzard to view a Morgan Giles 30. The journey was grim and the boat worse. Even the broker couldn't must up any enthusiasm.
On the way back we stopped off to view the Newbridge again. Compared to the MG30 she looked pristine and for almost half the money. We ended up having a pub lunch, staring at her as she stood on the opposite side of the harbour. She does grow on you!
Perhaps she'll let me keep the folkboat and the Newbridge.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I don't know too much about the trident but have seen triple Keeler ones and assumed from the name they were all the same.
Excuse my ignorance but I once had a triple Keeler that was unusable as it wouldn't dry out upright.

ghostlymoron,

the Trident 24 was available with fin, triple or lift keels; I expect Moby 2 is aware his triple keeler dries out on sand happily upright as I've been with him when he did it.

This is about the only time the Newbridge Pioneer will be mentioned in the same sentence as a Trident, the latter is extremely solidly built, looks good, is seaworthy, sails very well for a triple keeler and is a genuine sailor's boat.

I knew a couple of guys with a Pioneer Pilot, which sadly sailed like it looked; the great feature it offered according to them was " it's got a lovely kitchen " sic !

So it's not surprising the OP's wife was ensnared by that sort of interior, I and others have always called them ' boat show boats ' - they seem spiffing standing on carpet inside a big heated hall, less so when one is trying to beat into a F5 +.

 

[Topcat47]

Gentlemen don't sail to windward. I doubt if the performance on the wind would be a big selling point. I have sailed in company with one around the Solent, it's not fast, but then what 26'er is? When sailing "upwind" there was no contest, but reaching it was quite respectable.

 

[alancollins]

I sailed a Pioneer Pilot for 17 years as a family boat with two young children. She was safe and comfortable and sailed very much like a Westerley Centaur. Her sailing performance was identical to the Pioneer ( same boat but without the inside steering) but mine had an 18hp motor while the Pioneer had 9hp. She was in very sound condition when I sold her, according to the buyer's surveyor. The purchaser had previously owned a Moody 27 (also a Bill Dixon design) which he regretted selling and he thought my boat felt very similar.

 

[Seajet]

That rather depends who was sailing the Centaur; they go a lot better than some think, when properly handled - they only had a poor reputation to start with as

A, lots of novices bought them,

B, they had an unusually big engine for the time which combined with A, led people to think they didn't sail - but it was just because Volvo happened to offer Westerlies a good deal.

I don't see how a pilot house version can have even the same mediocre performance as the relatively low coachroof version, to windward in a blow - but I can see the appeal for pottering around having fun as long as not pushing one's luck.