jimbaerselman
Well-Known Member
But if you're moving relative to the backcloth, it's bearing will change. And the closer to it, the more rapid the change.
Puzzle that one out . . .
Puzzle that one out . . .
Newbie to Cruising : Where to start, What do I need ?
- Thread starter hopern1
- Start date
oldbilbo
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'jimbaerselman' and others, the use of informal visual transits to assist tracking/determination of Line of Constant Bearing and whether a 'risk of collision exists' is hugely useful, but really needs demonstrating on the water and then practicing, for it is by no means intuitive. Perhaps it's a topic a little beyond the OP's original request and, introduced on here, more likely to confuse than assist..?
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
No puzzle.... the same applies, bows eating up the backcloth it will pass in front of your vessel, stern eating up the backcloth it will pass astern of your vessel.
If no movement is seen of the bows or stern eating up the backcloth then best assume collision course.
oldbilbo.... yes I can imagine a newbie to the scene being a little confused, best i stop repeating myself too.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Surely though, on a very tight budget it's better to learn than to buy a toy to compensate for lack of skills? Much of this can be learned by reading and experimenting - it would be rare indeed for someone to be struck by a tanker on their first trip just because they couldn't take a bearing! More likely in the real world, the first year will be spent studiously avoiding anything big enough to pose a real collision risk. Other yachts can be avoided at a moments notice usually so are ideal to practice on.
oldbilbo
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Huh?
I find, when I consider it, that I've spent rather more than a year 'studiously avoiding anything big enough to pose a real collision risk'.... In fact, I've spent much of the past 40-odd years doing exactly that. Perhaps I and others of my acquaintance are doing something right....
And while someone or other is rabbiting on about 'the real world', it may be an opportune moment to explore the considerable depth of experience and expertise acquired over the decades by the above prolific and importunate poster 'lustyd' which informs his stentorian trumpeting. I've met rather a lot of skilled instructors in my time - some of them qualified and experienced RYA Ocean Instructor/Examiners with tens of thousands of hard miles under sail under their belts AND MCA STCW95 teaching qualifications beyond that, and others just blurry good at it and communicating it. If one is privileged enough, and attentive enough, one can learn rather a lot from such.
They are usually quite self-deprecating. One has to listen rather hard for the cues to their depth of experience - "shore lines in Patagonia needed to be about 300' long and stowed on drums," "we found it necessary to hoist the trisail rather higher, to keep the green water from bursting the sail, and yes, we used barber haulers to modify the sheet leads," "I found it helpful to set a kedge off Rio de Janeiro"......
Now, to return to our hero of the moment....
Around the town where I've lived for the past 27 years, there are quite a few retired 'Armchair Admirals'. They, too, are fond of the sound of their opinions.... So, to the noisy and noisome guardian of 'Live Magic' I would offer the following...
I find, when I consider it, that I've spent rather more than a year 'studiously avoiding anything big enough to pose a real collision risk'.... In fact, I've spent much of the past 40-odd years doing exactly that. Perhaps I and others of my acquaintance are doing something right....
And while someone or other is rabbiting on about 'the real world', it may be an opportune moment to explore the considerable depth of experience and expertise acquired over the decades by the above prolific and importunate poster 'lustyd' which informs his stentorian trumpeting. I've met rather a lot of skilled instructors in my time - some of them qualified and experienced RYA Ocean Instructor/Examiners with tens of thousands of hard miles under sail under their belts AND MCA STCW95 teaching qualifications beyond that, and others just blurry good at it and communicating it. If one is privileged enough, and attentive enough, one can learn rather a lot from such.
They are usually quite self-deprecating. One has to listen rather hard for the cues to their depth of experience - "shore lines in Patagonia needed to be about 300' long and stowed on drums," "we found it necessary to hoist the trisail rather higher, to keep the green water from bursting the sail, and yes, we used barber haulers to modify the sheet leads," "I found it helpful to set a kedge off Rio de Janeiro"......
Now, to return to our hero of the moment....
Around the town where I've lived for the past 27 years, there are quite a few retired 'Armchair Admirals'. They, too, are fond of the sound of their opinions.... So, to the noisy and noisome guardian of 'Live Magic' I would offer the following...
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lustyd
Well-Known Member
Bilbo, that blog is about my yacht, not about my sailing. I have done considerably more miles on other boats in other waters. That particular trip of 100NM was the forum Poole trip, and 10kt OTG is pretty impressive in a Vivacity.
Being an RYA Instructor doesn't make you right, and I've been on courses where the instructor damaged a boat due to his lack of knowledge. Yes, there are RYA Instructors who have lots of knowledge but that doesn't rule out the rest of us having something to contribute. Likewise, someone who uses 300' warps may know about boating generally but perhaps someone who owns and runs a small boat may have something useful to contribute to a thread about small low budget boats?
My point was, and you would do well to listen occasionally too, that sailors do not immediately jump into the kind of sailing where collision risks require bearings to be taken. It is far more likely that they will spend a while pottering somewhere fairly safe and therefore can practice the kind of techniques we were speaking about. Since finishing my RYA courses where it is mandatory to use one I have not had the need of a hand bearing compass and it has sat idly in my bag. I've only been on a boat once where one was needed and that was in the Irish Sea in October when the OOW was hoovering rather than watching because he assumed there wouldn't be any "small" boats out in the weather of the day. The boat I was on at the time was 40' and a compass was entirely appropriate to that boat and that type of sailing, as were lifejackets and all the other stuff on the various lists. That also happenned to be the only time I've felt the need to call up a ship and ask them to change course.
Being an RYA Instructor doesn't make you right, and I've been on courses where the instructor damaged a boat due to his lack of knowledge. Yes, there are RYA Instructors who have lots of knowledge but that doesn't rule out the rest of us having something to contribute. Likewise, someone who uses 300' warps may know about boating generally but perhaps someone who owns and runs a small boat may have something useful to contribute to a thread about small low budget boats?
My point was, and you would do well to listen occasionally too, that sailors do not immediately jump into the kind of sailing where collision risks require bearings to be taken. It is far more likely that they will spend a while pottering somewhere fairly safe and therefore can practice the kind of techniques we were speaking about. Since finishing my RYA courses where it is mandatory to use one I have not had the need of a hand bearing compass and it has sat idly in my bag. I've only been on a boat once where one was needed and that was in the Irish Sea in October when the OOW was hoovering rather than watching because he assumed there wouldn't be any "small" boats out in the weather of the day. The boat I was on at the time was 40' and a compass was entirely appropriate to that boat and that type of sailing, as were lifejackets and all the other stuff on the various lists. That also happenned to be the only time I've felt the need to call up a ship and ask them to change course.
Uricanejack
Well-Known Member
A good well thought out basic list
Uricanejack
Well-Known Member
My list for a pocket cruiser operating in the Solent would be, not in any particular order:
- Reeds almanack (2013 version should be very cheap now. always buy late unless you sail through winter. Tides in the Solent are very powerful)
- reliable motor. Preferably inboard diesel. There's a little thing with an inboard volvo on ebay now. Inboard diesels are far better at propelling a boat than equivalent inboard, esp. in a chop. Also much more economical & less teeth chattering..
- Tools, in watertight plastic box. Esp. lump hammer and big adjustable spanner!
- A sweep (a very big oar)
- danforth anchor
- chart plotter of some description. garmin GPS60CS upwards. Do not rely on android phone with Navionics as battery life and waterproofing usually poor. Can make do with laminated chart and cheap 'numbers only' gps, but used plotters cheap nowadays...( I have a very basic one (garmin streetpilot) for sale for £50 o.n.o in need of a chart card. Can upload chart to your blank card. Can loan card until one comes up on e-bay!)
- good LED torch. I carry halfords bike headlight. cost ~£25 but effectively doesn't use batteries, they just go off slowly
- lifejacket or buoyancy aid. little boats can be quite tippy...
- safety harness. Little boats can be quite tippy and wet...
- something strong to clip harness to. ideally strongpoint in cockpit & jack line(s) to bow
- roller furling headsail
- slab reefing mainsail
- Android phone to get great weather forecasts from t'internet. google RASP, windfinder(superforecast), meteoblue(air), GRIB and many others.
- hand held compass (for collision avoidance)
- good knife
- marine band radio (plus spare AA battery case if handheld. Also tie it to the boat if handheld)
- spare fuel in can(s) (lots if you have a petrol motor) Can also be sold to (not) passing fuel-challenged vessels :0)
- spare thick fleece top.
- sunglasses (to stop salt spray in eyes)
- sun hat
- Waterproof waterproofs. (Even yellow oilies work if you are desperate) Cheap cag-in-a-bag ones will last s season if that. However, my Musto's, currently starting to fail at 25 years old are still more expensive p.a., but far nicer to be in.
- Flares. (debatable nowadays) There are many who are desperate to rid themselves of out of date ones, which would largely work fine if only just out of date. (not from the batch which blew up a few years ago when still in date!) (Allegedly the French get upset if you have old ones aboard so people do shed them)
- Spare bottles of water.
- lots of rope. say four mooring lines each of 10m and ideally a couple of longer ones for rafting up etc. Anchor line can be used.
- Some fenders. At least four, each at least 20" ones. Can be deflated if rarely used.
- waterproof bag for sleeping bag & another for clothes
- first aid kit
- bucket (strong with good secure handle. most builders bucket handles unhook & fall off) I have canvas one which is ideal, though not so easy to clean.
- sponge (decorators sponge is best)
- gaffer tape
- milliput epoxy putty
- string
- welding torch flint lighter (less of a problem if wetted) or several cheap lighters in poly box.
- boat hook (with plastic end so you can push away wayward boats)
- dinghy of some description. Even large kids inflatable if you are careful where you use it.
- Common sense
- sense of adventure
- sense of humour
- Independence
- Resourcefulness
- fog horn, one you blow.
Nice to have:
- echo sounder.
- binoculars
- wildlife id book
- deck scrubbing brush
- membership of club of like-minded souls
Beware of:
tides
QHM
Various shingle bars and overfalls
Bembridge ledge, an underwater cliff waiting to break your keel.
Sands off Ryde, Pompey, Chichester etc
submarine barriers
racing yachts
motor yachts (wake)
shipping
ferries
hovercraft
dangerous idiots
Don't bother with:
- sextant. I haven't used mine for years
- RDF. would be useful if satellites ever stop working
A comprehensive list.
I just bought a Sextant for my boat.(now I have 2) No plotter
Do they even make RDF for Yachts anymore. I have used one It actually worked surprisingly well. It was before KH produced a Deca for yachts which is no longer available
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
Looking at the more recent contributions:
I agree that I should have added "some basic tools" to my list.
I am not sure that the sail configuration of roller reefing genoa and slab reefing main on SAPurdie's list would be on my list. Plenty of small boats manage fine with hanked on headsails. A beginner might find themselves looking to upgrade to a roller reefing genoa, but I would have put that on the personal preference list and not on an essentials list to start sailing. Having to hank on a headsail is not a problem and you can usually get them down as quickly or quicker than rolling the genoa away. On a small boat you can dump it on the deck or put a tie round it very quickly. Similarly if the cheap and ancient pocket cruiser you have acquired has a main that reefs by rolling it round the boom, so what? It won't be very efficient, but you can go sailing and have fun.
I am also not convinced that a plotter of any sort is necessary for pottering about the Solent. There's a part of me that says people get very reliant on them very quickly and drive the boat round the screen as if they are playing a computer game. I have met people who have NEVER got to grips with any of the basic concepts of navigation because they just use a plotter all the time. Their sailing progress on passage can be very slow as a result because they don't know about working tides properly and they don't spend enough time looking up and out of the boat to see how wind and tide are actually affecting them or look at the echo sounder to see whether the water they are really in matches where the plotter thinks they are. Plotters are wonderful and I do lots of sailing using one but I haven't got round to putting one on my own boat yet because I have also found better things to spend my money on and there's always a bigger and better model coming out.
All IMHO of course.
I agree that I should have added "some basic tools" to my list.
I am not sure that the sail configuration of roller reefing genoa and slab reefing main on SAPurdie's list would be on my list. Plenty of small boats manage fine with hanked on headsails. A beginner might find themselves looking to upgrade to a roller reefing genoa, but I would have put that on the personal preference list and not on an essentials list to start sailing. Having to hank on a headsail is not a problem and you can usually get them down as quickly or quicker than rolling the genoa away. On a small boat you can dump it on the deck or put a tie round it very quickly. Similarly if the cheap and ancient pocket cruiser you have acquired has a main that reefs by rolling it round the boom, so what? It won't be very efficient, but you can go sailing and have fun.
I am also not convinced that a plotter of any sort is necessary for pottering about the Solent. There's a part of me that says people get very reliant on them very quickly and drive the boat round the screen as if they are playing a computer game. I have met people who have NEVER got to grips with any of the basic concepts of navigation because they just use a plotter all the time. Their sailing progress on passage can be very slow as a result because they don't know about working tides properly and they don't spend enough time looking up and out of the boat to see how wind and tide are actually affecting them or look at the echo sounder to see whether the water they are really in matches where the plotter thinks they are. Plotters are wonderful and I do lots of sailing using one but I haven't got round to putting one on my own boat yet because I have also found better things to spend my money on and there's always a bigger and better model coming out.
All IMHO of course.
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nimbusgb
Well-Known Member
No one seems to have mentioned the most important item
A bottle of a decent single malt and a decent glass to drink a dram from.
A bottle of a decent single malt and a decent glass to drink a dram from.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
I'd suggest getting involved with Yately Offshore:
www.yosc.org.uk/
Pop along to a social evening or simply mail and see when the next cruise is. You'll get out on a boat at zero cost and quickly be able to judge for yourself what you need. Plus when you get a boat you'll have dozens of people on hand to help.
Or maybe Channel Sailing Club, which is a little further away from you:
http://www.channelsailingclub.org/
Both are on Facebook.
www.yosc.org.uk/
Pop along to a social evening or simply mail and see when the next cruise is. You'll get out on a boat at zero cost and quickly be able to judge for yourself what you need. Plus when you get a boat you'll have dozens of people on hand to help.
Or maybe Channel Sailing Club, which is a little further away from you:
http://www.channelsailingclub.org/
Both are on Facebook.
AuntyRinum
Well-Known Member
Good advice.
