Newbie looking for advice - sorry!

[It's all new to me!]

Hi to all.

This is my first post. I don't yet have a boat, but hope to have one within the next 12 to 18 months. I'm gathering as much information as I can at this stage.

So, to explain. My wife and I would like to sell our house and buy a boat to live aboard full time. We live in France (we're British but in the process of obtaining French nationality which will help with spending time in other Schengen countries). We'd like to sail the main European waterways (Canal Midi, Danube, Rhine etc) but still have the ability to do some coastal cruising and we'd like to be able to explore the coasts of Spain, Italy and maybe get down the Greece.

I realise that I'm covering a broad spectrum above and there is probably no 'perfect' boat for this. So, I'm happy to listen to what we might need to compromise on. Our budget will be in the region of 150,000 euros.

The size of the boat is a big thing (for me) as I'm fairly tall at 6ft 4ins (1.94m). We'd like minimum of 2 bedrooms (we will have guests from time to time), but ideally 3 as one would become an office as my wife and I will work from the boat. I'm thinking Starlink or 5G SIM cards depending on our location. We don't to work from the 'lounge' area, as if one is working and the other isn't then we don't want to be disturbing the person working as it involves video calls.

We've looked at some boats of up to 18m in length and no more than 5m width to ensure we can navigate the locks. This size boat seems to have a number of options in terms of head-height. We're also looking for a decent amount of outside space for dining etc. This will be our home.

However, these boats also come with a draft and air-draft which it seems may not be suitable for some of the European waterways. We don't want to worry about canals - I guess we'd be too big - and were really thinking main rivers and visiting the cities which lie on them. But, I have read that a draft of no more than 1.2m is recommended in France and that France also has the most low bridges! We could skip France if needs be. We live there now and could visit anywhere we want to see before getting a boat.

To also compound the 18m long issue, I have also read that many inland marinas will only accommodate boats of up to 15m! We don't plan to always need a marina, but realise we will do sometimes. How true is this 15m issue?

So, essentially what I'd welcome is suggestions on is the best type of boat that's got plenty of live-aboard space, but with a usable draft & air-draft for European rivers. I realise that these issue become less of a thing once at sea. I'm also guessing 2 engines are probably best given our desire to coastal cruise, but may be less needed/practical on some rivers.

I know Dutch barges are popular - especially for living space - but I'm concerned about their suitability outside of the river network.

As I say, I'm gathering info at this stage so thank you all in advance for your thoughts. Both positive and negative - though let me down gently if you have to let me down at all.

I suspect there's no ideal boat for my needs? Maybe I need 2 different types of boat?!? If so, I hope house prices go up in the next 12 to 18 months!!!

Thank you.

 

[Tranona]

Suspect you are asking too much of one boat. a boat suitable for river cruising will be seriously compromised at sea - OK for short coastal hopping, but not for the Atlantic coast. You will therefore have to make a choice between north and south because the only realistic way of getting from one to another is via the draft (air and water) restricted canal system. Med motor boats are very different from those used in the northern river systems. The former tend to be high speed planing boats because the most common use is bay or marina hopping whereas river cruising are mostly low speed displacement or semi displacement boats. Long distance cruising with a motor boat across the Med is not common because of the long open waters passages, although if you had the time and the money a coastal hop around the northern shores is possible.

Probably the best compromise would be a displacement boat such as you find in Holland of around 12m - any larger is likely to exceed the thee realistic 1.5m draft of the main canal system (Canal du Midi probably be out of bounds). That size will give you 2 separate sleeping cabins, saloon and cockpit for dining outside. You will find larger boats in the canal system but they really would not be suitable for anywhere else. Suspect your 150k euros will not go far if you are looking for a modern well equipped boat of this size.

 

[DoubleEnder]

Friend of mine has a 17m ‘Dutch Barge’ type on French canals and rivers, previously in Netherlands. She has 1 engine, bow and stern thrusters, draws approx 1m. Two en-suite bedrooms, big saloon. No office but very comfortable and easy to handle. Quite a few of the French ‘ports de plaisance’ enforce a 15m LOA maximum. I would be uncomfortable doing anything other than the most limited coastal passage but she’s a great inland waterways home for a couple of- one of whom frequently works while on board.
My Mediterranean cruising experience is limited. But I’d want a boat with good seakeeping characteristics, or perhaps with a high speed potential. The weather can change fast and you need to be able either to take it or escape it. A good inland waterways vessel will do neither

 

[Obi]

Hello, hi, great idea,
I assume you have no experience as you say "all new to me'. My advice is that getting involved on a boat sooner rather than later would be a good thing. That could be in an 'introduction to yachting/boating' course or similar over a day or a weekend.

Making a boat go is simple. Yet, there is a lot to know and many of us here learned the basics so long ago they are ingrained in our understanding as a foundation layer, you know simple things like cleat, impeller, bilge, port, starboard, bow. Things like wind sense, berthing or any manner of things can take a little while to develop skills and knowledge around, and all the time you spend on the water will be around people who you can talk to and learn more from, things that will add to your understanding and help you find the right direction. From a clove hitch to rebuilding your engine mid-Atlantic or fixing any manner of electrics and electronics, engineering things....as well as sailing..there is a lot to know but it is all great fun.

You'll pick up lingo, jargon, knowledge, experience, make contacts, explore boats and water...the more you know and learn the more you will be able to narrow down your boat criteria as you get a feel for what's good and what's not as well as plenty of other helpful stuff.

I'm also thinking that because of the size requirements you may find anything that can do the inland waterways is compromised too much to be safe at sea. Many of us go out on a good forecast and get caught out by changes in the weather especially on passages longer than a day.

I have thought about how nice it would be to explore the inland EU waterways, but I would not use my yacht for that. Considering what you have said, I'd probably go for a sea going yacht and accept the the rivers will have to wait. I recently got giddy excited about the 1980s Jongert yachts being auctioned through De Valk in The Netherlands. Not a smart choice and not one for everyone but I honestly thought "I could live comfortably on this', where as my old Oyster 39 was OK for living on board alone for 4 years, but at the end of that I was ready for life on land again. I spent a lot more time in port, paying fees, rather than anchoring as I imagined I would. I got a bit fed up of fixing things instead of enjoying myself, writing whilst travelling. I found 15 years ago marine wifi was not viable for work at all. I'd like to think things are better now and I am considering how to get myself into a Jongert for the next 20 years or so.

Mark

 

[Alicatt]

Our club voorsitter has an 18m Dutch barge style boat, they live on it from march to November, it has good head height and plenty of space on board, he does have to flatten the antennas masts etc. to get through some low height bridges, with everything flattened it is just under 3.5m air draught. The upper lounge / galley / dinning area also has the helm station. below decks aft it has a large master cabin, lounge with TV etc. and going forward there is a big garage, he used to keep a Mini car in there it has a crane and opening roof hatch to lift the car in and out. When the club goes off to events etc. we load his boat with all the junk we don't want to or can carry.

Him and his wife have sailed the boat all over Europe including France.

He is now looking for something smaller and Balance will be coming up for sale soon.


Only thing I would say it is not a boat for a novice, the owner has many years of experience and the boat is a handful even with thrusters.

We have a very old twin engined 11.6m boat made in the UK, internal headroom in the boat is quite generous at 1.92m, still that is slightly less than your 6'4". Our boat is a compromise between open sea and inland waterways with it leaning more to the open sea, the canals have quite a low speed limit on them from 6km/h to about 18km/h (very rare) and some sections where speed boats can open up, with our boat anything below 15km/h and we find the engines just don't get hot enough, yeah they are at the lower end of their working temperature but they don't clear all the burnt stuff out the exhausts, so we tend to alternate the engine use an hour on one and an hour on the other, and when we do open her up a bit we leave a smoke screen for a few meters until the exhaust clears, then she runs clean.
We are fairly new to the inland waterways in the EU and still learning, I am still trying to build my wife's confidence so we can head out to sea with our boat, the goal is that she wants to go to Denmark on the boat.

Last year we enrolled on a Power Boat Level 2 course which did wonders for my wife, the smile she had in a slight to moderate sea, she was throwing the boat about at 16knots dong S turns and practicing coming to a stop, it was blowing force 6 easing to force 5 so was a bit windy, she still does not like speed though and she does not like it when I take the boat up on the plane as the boat has quite a bow high attitude at speed. In a couple of weeks I am doing the Day Skipper course as part of the build up to going to sea with our boat.

For our boat they made them with a few different engine options, twin diesels of 95hp for the river and canals, twin 145hp turbo diesels, which we have, and twin 185hp turbo diesels, they are just too high geared for use on the canals, and I do know of one boat that had a single engine but I think it was a conversion.

I would advise you to go get some experience by doing something like the Power Boat course, the level 2 course is good, my wife had no prior experience other than a few days on our first boat which was a small river boat.

Also for the inland waterways you will need an ICC with a CEVNI endorsement, CEVNI is just the rules of the road for the inland waterways. I have been asked for my papers once by the police when they came to check up on our first boat just after we bought it, and once by a lock keeper, he was only really interested in if we hade a permit to sail on the canals in Belgium, this was taking our second boat back home when we bought it.

 

[Obi]

I think there might be a TV series about Timothy Spall and a barge. I believe he takes it to sea. It might be worth a watch. This is not meant to be educational, simply that you might enjoy it.

 

[mrtoomanytoys]

Slightly different to your requirements, but this was my first into a boat from ground zero .

Thread 'Novice "yachtist" considering life's options'

31 Mar 2025

Hi.
I have been having a wander around here and it's amazing the wealth of info and advice.. I wasn't sure where to post, but this section seems the most logical..
So here goes.
I shall be 58 this year, still have my health (if a little podgy), very practical and capable of fixing most things (pharma engineering for work and petrol head)
Life really hasn't gone where I hoped and I find myself without too many assets (no property).. spent far too much effort and time trying to save a relationship, by myself....!
So very much single and trying to enjoy life..

I have spent a good bit of...

• mrtoomanytoys
• Replies: 88
• Forum: Liveaboard Link

I certainly appreciated the honesty, criticism and congratulations from the same people on purchasing..

Several months in, 1 sail under my belt, many weekends on it (not living aboard yet), I am as "happy as Larry" with my decision.
There are a few niggles to sort...but temporary fixes till the spring will suffice..

Loving the life I have now...

 

[Fr J Hackett]

You would need something with a lifting keel, a Southerly perhaps but you won’t get much for a €150k. You don’t mention it but running costs will eat money, yachts are not buy and forget. Whilst yachts transit some of the canals they are not really suited to it for any great length of time, you would soon tire of having the mast lying along the cabin top.
In short what you propose is impractical