Newbie - am I being too unrealistic?

[CreekySteve]

Wise to take your time and make the best decison.

I would just repeat the suggestion to consider “try before you buy” - not of individual boats, but more of the differnt ways of boating.

Perhaps a week in Scotland on a sailing yacht - such as this (other companies available) - RYA Day Skipper Course in Largs, Scotland

Perhaps also hire a narrow boat on a canal for a week, to compare that alternative.

PS. For coastal cruising (eg the Cornwall to Hebrides) a sailing boat with auxiliary engine isn’t “double the trouble” - it means having alternatives and contingency.

Getting some tasters is the way to go. I'm going to put some feelers out with local clubs.

When I was talking about sailing boats with engines I meant motorsailers like the Nauticats and Fishers. They seem a like a good, comfortable, economical option, but there are a lot of negative opinions about owning one as being neither one thing or another, and not very good at either. I just liked the look of them - good and solid with some decent space inside. And with a pilothouse.

The rest of this you might not want to read - it's a bit of a stream of consciousness, so please feel free not to bother. I won't be offended.

I was watching a vlog last night by a couple of Welsh brothers who recently bought a Prout cat, and I was hooked by the idea of sailing... Then I watched a detailed video of how to use a genoa, and all of those lines and having to rig them, and then getting the sail out and putting everything away again afterwards, and it made me realise that it's not going to be for me as a solo boater. I mean, I love the whole ethic, economy and theory of sailing, but I suspect that learning to manage the physical sails along with developing good navigation and boating skills involves a pretty steep learning curve. I definitely need to try before I buy, and maybe compromise on what I can do, and where I can go. I've recognised that one of my main critereas for a suitabe living space is that I can cook proper meals enjoyably, and carry my small collection of guitars with me.

I've been thinking about costs, and at my stage in life, and with no one I feel particularly obliged to provide a legacy for, I'm coming round to the idea of realising my capital, and then investing it in a way that allows me to gradually draw it down if I need to, to enjoy the last active part of my life - finally fulfilling some ambitions. I doubt reality will exactly meet expectations, but that's life. The upshot being that I only need to be able to afford the costs of owning, travelling and living on a boat, rather than have to completely minimise those costs. Frugal's fun, but only to the point of not having to worry about running out of cash.

Talking on here has helped me understand that I'm looking for the freedom to just up sticks when I fancy, more than satisfying a driving passion for the physical mechanics or method of how I achieve that. I mean, I do love boats, and being on the water, and always have done. I'm just not so good at close quarters living with others - especially not for long periods of time. So that, combined with a lack of money, has limited my opportunities to try life at sea. I loved living out of the back of an old Citroen BX in a field in Avranches for half a year... and traipsing around India and Nepal when I was young with no plan at all. I enjoyed spending a couple of years living in a Mercedes van in a remote part of the Scottish borders, or a winter living in a goat shed in the hills around Aubusson. I just have a yearning now to experience travelling by water more intimately, but with the security of my own living space too. I did live by a surfing beach in Cornwall and taught myself to surf when I was in my thirties, but an accident put paid to that. Then I happened to pass a loch in Scotland where the sailing club was offering free dinghy lessons. Next thing I knew I was the proud owner of an old Lazer tearing around the loch in the weekly races. Then events stopped that. I know I don't want to drive any more - it's just too busy and I don't want to be sneaking around looking for free stopovers or pay for expensive, boring campsites. Water life is my final frontier, and I fancy boldly going there.

If you have read all of the above,, and you're annoyed that I've taken your time up, then please accept my apologies - but I did warn you.

Love and peace

 

[CreekySteve]

Wise to take your time and make the best decison.

I would just repeat the suggestion to consider “try before you buy” - not of individual boats, but more of the differnt ways of boating.

Perhaps a week in Scotland on a sailing yacht - such as this (other companies available) - RYA Day Skipper Course in Largs, Scotland

Perhaps also hire a narrow boat on a canal for a week, to compare that alternative.

PS. For coastal cruising (eg the Cornwall to Hebrides) a sailing boat with auxiliary engine isn’t “double the trouble” - it means having alternatives and contingency.

I'm surprised at how reasonable the costs of the RYA courses are - I was expecting £thousands. Thanks for the link.

 

[Sea Change]

The YouTube channel too were watching war probably the Sailing Brothers? Great, down to earth approach. They boat a solid but small sailing boat (you could likely pick up something similar for £10-£20k depending on condition and equipment) and they just set off with little fanfare or drama. A breath of fresh air amongst the usual YouTubers.

If you've mastered sailing a Laser, I really don't see that you've got much to learn about sailing a cruising yacht. It won't capsize, everything will happen quite slowly, and you have winches to help with the physical stuff. Seriously, I wouldn't discount it. The freedom you get with a sea-going sailing vessel sounds like the right kind of thing for you.

As you're on your own, you really don't need something especially large or luxurious. I'd say around 33ft would do just fine.
The motorsailors do make quite a lot of sense, but most of them have masses of woodwork on deck, which represents many hours each year sanding and varnishing. If you think you'll enjoy giving up some of your precious fair weather days then go for it, but it wouldn't be my choice.
The motorsailors also tend to be very heavy and not great under sail, so you'll motor a lot more than the equivalent sailing boat. They have massive accommodation, bigger engines, and generally cost more to buy. If you're set on staying in the UK, then it could be a good choice, but if going further afield I'd recommend against.

What do mooring options look like near you? Why not dip your toe, pick up a cheap ~25ft boat (can be had for very little these days) and spend the summer living aboard and learning the ropes. Then you'll have a better idea of whether this lifestyle is for you.

 

[Wansworth]

From experience I would go for a boat with a wheelhouse this enables you to watch the world go by ..part of the joy of yachting,a motor sailer but not a fisher 30 as they roll at anchour.There is lots to see and enjoy around the Uk …to start with

 

[CreekySteve]

The YouTube channel too were watching war probably the Sailing Brothers? Great, down to earth approach. They boat a solid but small sailing boat (you could likely pick up something similar for £10-£20k depending on condition and equipment) and they just set off with little fanfare or drama. A breath of fresh air amongst the usual YouTubers.

If you've mastered sailing a Laser, I really don't see that you've got much to learn about sailing a cruising yacht. It won't capsize, everything will happen quite slowly, and you have winches to help with the physical stuff. Seriously, I wouldn't discount it. The freedom you get with a sea-going sailing vessel sounds like the right kind of thing for you.

As you're on your own, you really don't need something especially large or luxurious. I'd say around 33ft would do just fine.
The motorsailors do make quite a lot of sense, but most of them have masses of woodwork on deck, which represents many hours each year sanding and varnishing. If you think you'll enjoy giving up some of your precious fair weather days then go for it, but it wouldn't be my choice.
The motorsailors also tend to be very heavy and not great under sail, so you'll motor a lot more than the equivalent sailing boat. They have massive accommodation, bigger engines, and generally cost more to buy. If you're set on staying in the UK, then it could be a good choice, but if going further afield I'd recommend against.

What do mooring options look like near you? Why not dip your toe, pick up a cheap ~25ft boat (can be had for very little these days) and spend the summer living aboard and learning the ropes. Then you'll have a better idea of whether this lifestyle is for you.

Yes, it was the Sailing Brothers. The last time I saw one of their videos was when they'd just started out sailing around Pembrokeshire in a tiny yacht. I was quite impressed to see that they'd made it to Fiji and had just bought a Prout there (how I came across their vlog again) which they've since sailed to Australia - presumably on the back of income from Youtube and their followers. They're very entertaining - and I can relate to them greatly.

The trouble is, the next video I watched was a chap showing how to fly the genoa on his Prout, and the sight of all the lines and setting up this and that gave me a dose of the heebie-jeebies. My old Laser had one line to keep a hold of and a tiller, if I remember rightly. There was something to adjust the shape of the sail but I never understood that so left it alone. I miss the exhilaration of getting up on the plane when it was blowing, but not trying to coax it into moving on a still day or the impending doom knowing that I'd have to jibe round the next buoy and be going for a swim. I actually became so adept at capsizing on a jibe that I could often do it without getting wet by walking round the hull onto the keel as it happened, then rolling with the boat back onboard as it righted. I did try crewing for one of the old hands in their GP14 which was great fun. but it turns out it's poor etiquette to berate other crews as you pass them... I could be quite competitive.

My problem with sailing outside UK or Irish waters is being able to get health insurance, having had a heart attack a few years ago. The GHIC is okay, but all recommendations say back it up with proper travel insurance.

This is beautiful though: https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/prout-snowgoose-elite-for-sale/781579

 

[CreekySteve]

From experience I would go for a boat with a wheelhouse this enables you to watch the world go by ..part of the joy of yachting,a motor sailer but not a fisher 30 as they roll at anchour.There is lots to see and enjoy around the Uk …to start with

Yes to a wheelhouse. Thanks for the advice.

 

[CreekySteve]

Yes, it was the Sailing Brothers. The last time I saw one of their videos was when they'd just started out sailing around Pembrokeshire in a tiny yacht. I was quite impressed to see that they'd made it to Fiji and had just bought a Prout there (how I came across their vlog again) which they've since sailed to Australia - presumably on the back of income from Youtube and their followers. They're very entertaining - and I can relate to them greatly.

The trouble is, the next video I watched was a chap showing how to fly the genoa on his Prout, and the sight of all the lines and setting up this and that gave me a dose of the heebie-jeebies. My old Laser had one line to keep a hold of and a tiller, if I remember rightly. There was something to adjust the shape of the sail but I never understood that so left it alone. I miss the exhilaration of getting up on the plane when it was blowing, but not trying to coax it into moving on a still day or the impending doom knowing that I'd have to jibe round the next buoy and be going for a swim. I actually became so adept at capsizing on a jibe that I could often do it without getting wet by walking round the hull onto the keel as it happened, then rolling with the boat back onboard as it righted. I did try crewing for one of the old hands in their GP14 which was great fun. but it turns out it's poor etiquette to berate other crews as you pass them... I could be quite competitive.

My problem with sailing outside UK or Irish waters is being able to get health insurance, having had a heart attack a few years ago. The GHIC is okay, but all recommendations say back it up with proper travel insurance.

This is beautiful though: https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/prout-snowgoose-elite-for-sale/781579

 

[CreekySteve]

Genoa: Am I confusing cake with sails?

 

[CreekySteve]

Anyway - I just found a 1982 RYA Navigation Manual in amongst my old books, and The Complete Sailing Handbook by Jeremy Evans. This is not the first time I've heard the call of the water. I have my reading material for a while then.

 

[dunedin]

…….

The trouble is, the next video I watched was a chap showing how to fly the genoa on his Prout, and the sight of all the lines and setting up this and that gave me a dose of the heebie-jeebies. My old Laser had one line to keep a hold of and a tiller, if I remember rightly. There was something to adjust the shape of the sail but I never understood that so left it alone. I miss the exhilaration of getting up on the plane when it was blowing, but not trying to coax it into moving on a still day or the impending doom knowing that I'd have to jibe round the next buoy and be going for a swim. I actually became so adept at capsizing on a jibe that I could often do it without getting wet by walking round the hull onto the keel as it happened, then rolling with the boat back onboard as it righted. ….

Entirely your call as to whether to go motor yacht or sailing yacht, also with a motor.

But don’t be put off a sailing boat by what you watched on YouTube. If you managed to sail a Laser dinghy then, like riding a bike, you already have the key experience and it won’t be difficult.

What you were seeing on YouTube was probably a “gennaker” (similar to a spinnaker) and a bit more tricky than the basic “white sails”.
Many single handed sailors never bother with these extra sails.
And often you can sail hundreds of miles just using the jib (or confusingly “genoa”, but not “gennaker”).
With most modern boats the jib is on a furler and you just unroll as much sail as you want, pull in the sheet (like your Laser) and go sailing across or downwind, You could get to the Caribbean if you wanted to that way. And if gets windy or have arrived, pull one string and it rolls away. Simples.

Once get more experience hoist the mainsail as well. But no rush.

This is where going on a course with an instructor will help, both in terms of learning - and deciding if sailing or motor boats are for you.

PS. Don’t be fixated on a pilot house unless proven to be essential, as it will significantly reduce your options and/or increase prices. 99% of us manage with a good sprayhood- including me, and I go sailing all through the winter in Scotland and rarely bother with oilskins.

 

[Sea Change]

Agree with Dunedin, sailing with just a genoa is really about as simple as it gets. If you can work a roller blind, you can work a furling genoa.

The mechanics of making a sailing boat move in the general direction that you wish to go are pretty simple, and your Laser experience will already have taught you how to do that. Going from that point to getting the last 10% performance out of your boat, so that you can win races, is where people spend years honing the skill. Entirely unnecessary for a cruising newcomer! Quite satisfying to improve your sailing over the years though, one of the reasons why people stick at it for decades.

What do you mooring options look like locally? That will dictate all your choices. As I already said, if you have access to a budget-friendly mooring buoy or marina berth, you could pick up a cheap old yahct under 30ft which people can hardly give away these days. Spend the summer doing weekends or longer, get the feel for it all and decide where to go from there. All without committing any serious money.

Or even better, do that on somebody else's boat, if they'll take you out as crew