New to Yachting, What do i need to do

[JasonClark]

Hi all.

Firstly let me state my position. I have had a 6 berth river/canal cruiser that i built from a GRP shell and then went on to cruise in her for the next 4 yrs until i sold her. I have always fancied trying my hand at sailing a Yacht, but i'm having tremendous difficulty finding info for an absolute beginner as i know no-one who sails yachts and i've never even set foot on one, so hopefully there's plenty of them folks here who can answer my dim questions, we all have to start somewhere.

I really fancy giving this a go, i want something i can sail single handed which can accomodate two adults and two kids. I have seen a 23' Hunter Sonata in my price range that seems pretty sorted, are these ok ? bearing in mind i have no idea what a Genoa is ? i think its a some kind of sail....the brokerage says its ready to go with everything needed to go to sea.

I thought about having it put on Windermere for a few yrs until the kids are older then going to sea in it, is this a good idea ? or not....

I have also heard about the RYA Dayskipper course, i need this to go to sea right ? do i need this to sail on windermere too ?

i have already spoken to a few marina's in different places and got prices for mooring fees for said boat so thats not a problem.

Thanks.

 

[Babylon]

It doesn't matter where to eventually intend to sail - just don't buy a yacht before you've gone out on one first! If you don't know anyone who sails, then send Lakesailor a private message, he sails on Lake Windemere, also there's a temporary 'Windermere Meet Forum' so there'll be others who can advise you.

One option would be to do a weekend RYA Start Yachting course. And of course, you might not yet know what a 'genoa' is, but there are hundreds of books out there designed to induct complete beginners.

Good luck!

Babs

PS I'd definitely recommend you do the Day Skipper theory and practical, which will give you a solid basic grounding in safety, boat-handling, navigation, weather, etc - and buy a copy of Tom Cunliffe's 'Day Skipper' from which as a beginner you'll learn loads.

 

[BoyBlue49]

I would have thought it obvious one would need some form of training with a sailing boat, if only for the safety of your family.
Try a weekend course with a sailing school, you may find sailing is not for you, better to find out before investing your money.

 

[blackbeard]

I would have thought it obvious one would need some form of training with a sailing boat, if only for the safety of your family.
Try a weekend course with a sailing school, you may find sailing is not for you, better to find out before investing your money.

Absolutely.
Alternatively you could find a boat with skipper (clubs run crew lists, and there is usually a shortage of crew, you don't need to know much, just do as asked); select a boat with gear that works and a skipper who doesn't shout at the crew (that should shorten the list a bit), remember to buy the skipper a meal occasionally. And go on a course.

 

[JasonClark]

Absolutely.
Alternatively you could find a boat with skipper (clubs run crew lists, and there is usually a shortage of crew, you don't need to know much, just do as asked); select a boat with gear that works and a skipper who doesn't shout at the crew (that should shorten the list a bit), remember to buy the skipper a meal occasionally. And go on a course.

P.s Your userneme is my great great great grandfather

 

[photodog]

Sailing Career Path.....

I would suggest the following... DONT BUY ANY BOAT UNTIL THE FOLLWING STEPS HAVE BEEN COMPLETED

1) Summer 1; Learn to sail..... This is best accomplished on a dingy... the basic principles are the same no matter the size. There will be lots of local dingy sailing courses available to you. If you want in the end to be sailing with your kids or wife... then get them along as well... As well as learning to sail you will have a great time!

2) Take the RYA Dayskipper Theory during the course of a winter (1 evening a week) at your local college.

3) Summer 2; Maybe a bit more dingy sailing if your not fully up to speed.. but take the RYA Competent crew course... More Dingy sailing...
Make friends here and go along on some of their bigger boats to get a feel for things.

4) Summer 3; RYA Day skipper course practical. Flotilla holiday with family in Greece/ other med destination.

5) Winter 3; RYA Coastal Skipper Theory winter course. Xmas or January Charter/ Flotilla in the BVI's

6) Summer 4; Charter in the UK.

7) Summer 5; Charter in the UK
.


Now... by then you will have a better appreciation for what sort of sailing you want to do, what sort of boat will suit you, if the kids and swmbo are keen... etc etc... then think about Buying if you are still keen!

 

[Quandary]

What you do

It does not need five years, I agree with the dinghy sailing as a start, but all you need to do is find a club in the area that suits you, one with both dinghies and cruisers, join, consider family membership if you all want to get involved, let it be known that you want to sail. Everyone is looking for keen crew. Inside a season youshould know enough about it to work out the next step and will have met people you can trust to advise you.

 

[Hunson]

I have seen a 23' Hunter Sonata in my price range that seems pretty sorted, are these ok ? bearing in mind i have no idea what a Genoa is ? i think its a some kind of sail....the brokerage says its ready to go with everything needed to go to sea.

We brought one of these as our first boat. And newish to sailing.

As a first boat I personally would not recommend it. If we could go back and do things again, we would choose differently. Though were happy with her now we have got used to her.

Not wanting to scare you but when we bought the boat, our friends who had got us interested in sailing told us that they are lively. We didn't realise what lively meant compared to their boat a First 24 and heavier. Until we were sailing with a small amount of sail and were heeling considerably more than we had on our friends with more sail.

Not weighing much you can easily find yourself up on the rail and staring bleakly at the water on the opposite side.

Depending on your location and water depths, she may not be the right type of keel for you. Again, on hindsight we would have chosen differently, as on the East Coast mud a fin can keep your eye on the depth guage more than enjoying the sailing.

We have just completed our first major tour in our boat. We loved it despite a few hiccups. There were only two of us. Swmbo is only 4'11" and she slept up in the forepeak, whilst myself 5'11" slept on the port quater berth. Neither of us can stand fully upright downbelow.

I would say these are more racers than cruisers, though they do do both.

Don't put the family off before you've got started. Follow the above advice and get as much experience you can and if you can get lots of experience going out with people with different boats to get an idea of the pro's and con's of what a family requires when sailing.

 

[lw395]

Learning Yachting.

I would recommend joining a sailing club that caters for your interests. Some will provide cheaper instruction, but even if you don't find one near you that does, a local club will give you access to loads of knowledge. You can learn a lot and get to know people by volunteering to help with stuff, for instance timekeeping and flag hoisting for races. Just be totally honest about your level of knowledge!

A dinghy course will be worthwhile. The RYA cruising courses are good, but you can run up quite a bill if you do them all. Having said that, a weekend or week with a sailing school will be a small cost compared to owning a boat, and will get you started this summer.
Once you are halfway competent in a dinghy, try to have a go crewing on a bigger boat perhaps for a short race. Being the third or fourth person need not be too demanding (don't start with someone who expects to win!) and you can learn a lot.
The shorebased evening classes for Yachtmaster theory are a good way of meeting useful people.

Good Sailing!

 

[JasonClark]

can i not just buy a boat and hire someone to teach me to sail it ? sounds a bloody sight easier to me.

 

[photodog]

What sort of boat are you going to buy and how much money are you prepared to spend to decide if you and your family enjoy sailing?

How will you know if the boat you are going to buy is suitable for the location and conditions you are going to sail in?

 

[David_Jersey]

we all have to start somewhere.

Yup

I really fancy giving this a go, i want something i can sail single handed which can accomodate two adults and two kids. I have seen a 23' Hunter Sonata in my price range that seems pretty sorted, are these ok ? bearing in mind i have no idea what a Genoa is ? i think its a some kind of sail....the brokerage says its ready to go with everything needed to go to sea.

I am guessing you are after something that will not scare the bejeezus out of you and the family whilst you learn, but will still be fun thereafter. therefore IMO a Sonata not a bad choice, albeit perhaps more towards the sportier end of a family boat. They built a lot over a few years, which is usually a fairly good indication of a decent boat.

obviously 23' of any boat will have limitations on the accomadation which impacts on the time you (& family) want to stay onboard. IMO a young family, happy with camping style luxuries should have no problem overnight or up to a weekend / long weekend.......but a week might be pushing it...........of course everyone / families differ on what basic is!

I thought about having it put on Windermere for a few yrs until the kids are older then going to sea in it, is this a good idea ? or not....

A good idea only if you want to sail / visit Windermere, no reason why not start on the sea. Only been to Windermere once, that was by car! but beautiful area and looked like would be fun to sail and explore by boat, for a few years - if not far longer! I've only sailed on a lake once (in NZ) so not an expert, but I will mention that a Lake is not a pond and is well capable of throwing at you the things the sea can do, and arguably sometimes worse - not said to put you off, just so you realise sea or lake is not always a choice between better or safer..........the choice largely depends on what you want to do. FWIW if the Lakes were in easy reach of me, and I had a young family like you then I would be seriously tempted by the Lake district, principally for the fun / ease of exploring "foreign" shores via short passages!

I have also heard about the RYA Dayskipper course, i need this to go to sea right ? do i need this to sail on windermere too ?

I don't know about the requirements on Windermere (do boats need licences on the lakes?), but you don't legally need any qualifications to venture to sea. But IMO a good idea to do something like an RYA course, even if informally through freinds. As already said, simply going out sailing with other folk will teach you a lot - once you have a boat in a berth somewhere should be no problem in getting yourself invited onboard other boats.


Obviously finding the right boat in the right condition for the right price is important.............although plenty of things that would be nice to have onboard, one thing I will strongly suggest is buying a boat that has a roller headsail already fitted (expensive to add later, specially in relation to the value of the boat). A headsail is the sail at the front The reasoning being that simply makes life easier (important when learning), plus on a smaller boat less bouncing around on a small bow is simply less aggro and if keeping an eye on kids nice to be able to stay in the cockpit.

5 years? LOL - buy something, do a course and learn yourself / through freinds.


Have fun

 

[JasonClark]

What sort of boat are you going to buy and how much money are you prepared to spend to decide if you and your family enjoy sailing?

How will you know if the boat you are going to buy is suitable for the location and conditions you are going to sail in?

i plan on spending 5 K. not alot in comparison to alot of the pictures i have seen on this site. but its suitable to my budget and i know i can get a something i think is decent for that amount.

I plan on (even long term) doing coastal cruising. I also know the SWMBO is quite an adventurous type who loves doing anything to do with water. she is as keen as me i'd like to add.

from the past posts its quite obvious we need to get out on someone's yacht.

or join a club....any offers from members ?


two people prepared to crew for a weekend know nothing about sailing but will do anything as asked within reason.

 

[photodog]

Lancashire Sailing clubs...

http://www.go-sail.co.uk/clublist.asp?county=Lancashire


knock yerself out!

Really.... learn to sail before you buy.

Do some theory over the winter.... get some sailing on other peeps boats...

and yer away.

 

[Spyro]

can i not just buy a boat and hire someone to teach me to sail it ? sounds a bloody sight easier to me.

Yes If you definetly want to buy a boat. 23ft boat for the wife and 2 kids, probably not a good idea.
Day skipper qualification is not necessary or any other formal qualification but for your needs competant crew would be a good start if you can't get experience on another boat.

 

[mlthomas]

Hi Jason

I would go for some sail time before you buy, if you are thinking of going on the lake contact maiden marine who have people (contacts, if not them) who can do some tuition. Then have a charter on the lake - you will know at the end of a week whether it is for you (all) or not.
We thought the same as you, however, I did a load of sailing and tried to convince SWMBO that this was the way forward (we had a mobo) - for us it worked but I know two boats that are foe sale now because they bought before they tried.
Lakesailor might know other contacts too - I only recommend MM as they have been brilliant with us, and we got our on board tuition through them, but I knew I wanted to sail before we bought
Photodog has some good steps, all about time on the water, build it up before committing I know of we had done this before we bought the mobo (ie charter) we wouldn't have bought what we did and we would have been sailing three years earlier
RYA courses are good too, do as many as you can.
You can see SWMBO's take up on sailing on the 'first sail on the boat' thread on the forum - that was yesterday

 

[Lakesailor]

Lots of stuff to think about there.
My own opinion.

You don't need to do any formal training at this point
Get a ride on some other's boats
If you fancy Windermere get a ride on the lake.There is a lot of manoeuvring and sail handling to do on a lake compared to coastal sailing, but no tides or currents to contend with. However the winds can be "strange". Flukey and very gusty at times, usually when you least expect it. So perhaps best off with someone who already sails if you are going to buy your own boat.
I had a fellow-mooring occupier who bought a boat (a 24 ft Westerly I think it was) and took an RYA Instructor's on-your-own-boat sailing course. The instructor frightened them to death. I saw him one day sail off the mooring and straight across the lake heeled hard over in what should be a nice stable boat. It's that kind of malarky that may put your wife and kids off sailing.

Sonata probably a bit demanding for a 1st time family boating adventure on this lake. Another friend on the same mooring had a Sun 2000 (too small for you) and was a bit of a "competetive Dad". He frightened all his family off as well. Quite a lot of more modern boats on the lake are a bit tender, Beneteau 211, MG Spring25, Gibseas etc. The older boats like Westerlys and Halcyons and such are more stable. Just my opinion.

The moral is, buy something a bit steady to start with. By sailing on a few other's boats first and talking to them, you will get an idea what you want.

As for training, dinghy sailing and racing, forget them all. If you want to go sailing, do it. For lake use a few lessons will bring you up to a safe and competent level. It's safe on the lake. Not many sailors drown. It's the swimmers who get taken down.

If you plan to get coastal straight away then a sailing course will awaken you to the importance of tides, currents, navigation and all the stuff you don't need on the lake.

 

[Topcat47]

Yes you can, but it's a bloody expensive way or going about it. Lots of people do this and pay for a full time skipper.

It's always best if at least one person on board knows what he/she is doing. Hence the advice about trying dingy sailing. There is a word of difference between sailing and canal boating, even on inland waterways. The MoBo does tend to go where it's pointed, whatever the wind and waves are doing, especially if you have a big enough engine. A propper canal boat is long, thin, heavy and slow anyway.


I don't know the age or sex of your children, but boys get turned off it by Dad yelling at them when they make a mistake (and they will, you all will) and girls get turned off by being cold, wet, miserable and having their make-up run. NO ONE likes being seasick. If they are young enough, they can start with you, dinghy sailing. If they are already teenagers, they'll probably resent being dragged away from their X-boxes and Facebook.

The Sonata makes a good first boat for an experienced dingy sailor. It's also good for single-handing. My recommendation in your case, however, would be to go for something a little heavier and more "seaworthy" like a Hurley or a Halcyon. Both are relatively cheap. It is generally held to be true that the first boat is never the right boat. As you gain in experience you gain the knowledge that helps you decide exactly what you're looking for in a boat and these two have the added advantage that if it all goes pear shaped, you haven't lost a lot of money on the deal.

 

[hlb]

Jason, I taught myself to sail, with the aid of a book or two. On Windermere you will be fine, though the winds are flooky and in some ways it's more dfficult than on the sea, because the wind keeps changing.

The sea around the North West are about the most inhospitable in the country, if I had to sail round there, I dont think I'd bother.

I would not bother with courses for Windermere, just buy a book and a wind thingy for the top of the mast. You'll have picked up the basics in a day or two.

 

[holly1]

I bought a boat and taught myself to sail but if i had to do it again i would crew for someone first