New Shaped Hulls

[Snowgoose-1]

These different shaped hulls on racing boats seem to be increasing in popularity .
Although they take a long time to reach the cruiser market , it would be nice to know what the benefits are .

Apologies. Postimage seems to have a problem. Try tapping the image

 

[lustyd]

Pretty sure there was a thread about scow bows a while ago and some cruising boats already had them. Many benefits and they aren’t new just trendy, I can’t remember the details and not an expert

 

[Snowgoose-1]

Pretty sure there was a thread about scow bows a while ago and some cruising boats already had them. Many benefits and they aren’t new just trendy, I can’t remember the details and not an expert

Yes, I had a search and couldn't find much about them. Possibly, the full on racing boys here are more familiar with it.
The most noticeable feature is the blunt bow .

 

[flaming]

Short answer is that fuller bow profile allows for a much more powerful hull shape, extending the chine all the way forward gives a lot more form stability. With more form stability the boat can stand up to more sail, and will therefore be considerably faster, especially on a reach.

Racing what you might consider the previous iteration of this concept, which has a fuller bow profile than traditional cruiser racer types, but narrow compared to the pic above, and with a chine that only extends about 1/3 of the way from the stern, we find that upwind there is little in it, deep downwind also little in it until the very top end where their extra volume allows them to push harder, but on a breezy reach they are just gone. However compared to the conventional cruiser racer types we are also just gone on those reaches.... Last JOG race of last season, sailed in circa 20-25 knots, was a fantastic example. 1st leg was a sheets just cracked white sail reach. Leading pack was us (a JPK1010), a 3300 (pictured above), a couple of J109s. We were just behind the 3300, just ahead of the 109s. Second leg was a short beat. We pulled through the 3300. The 109s just about matched us. The next leg was circa 120-125 true. We left the 109s for dead, heading off at 12-13 knots on the plane. Then the 3300 came past us like we were standing still and got so far gone that they saved their time easily, despite being behind us after an hour or so of racing.

Contrast with one of the early JOG races of last season. Same fleet, similar wind, but this time the offwind leg was much deeper. Again a sheets just cracked reach, followed by a beat, followed by a 150ish, becoming VMG downwind. That time the 3300s caught up a bit, but didn't pass. And in fact the 109s managed to out VMG them to beat them on handicap.

The flip side is that we have the edge over the 3300s in the very light, but then more traditional c/r/ types (109s etc) have the edge over us....

But....

What is crystal clear is that hull shapes like this need to be light to really work. Load a boat like that up with too much cruising clobber, and you'll neuter the advantages.

 

[Snowgoose-1]

Thanks. Excellent description .As a bonus with examples.
The Sunfast example looks an excellent boat with good accommodation and outstanding performance
Even able to singlehand. I just need the £100k

Brochure

 

[flaming]

I just need the £100k

And the rest....

 

[Snowgoose-1]

And the rest....

Based on zero tariffs mate !

Not the Trumped up rate.

 

[MisterBaxter]

The light weight makes a lot of sense for a scow bow, so that when it heels, the blunt bit of the bow is up clear of the water with the boat sat on its chine.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Seems to me that modern ‘new’ shaped cruisers are more and more similar to multihulls, but still not as quick. Flaming might just as well be describing racing against us. Though if there was any weight in the wind, we wouldn’t be caught on a beat either, but we are hilariously crap on a dead run. We might as well get fishing rods out if it’s light, and dead downwind. We need breeze to sail to VMG downwind. I’m sure that is the same on a fat arse, scow bow mono. Another thing we have in common, it simply costs money to go quickly. You need laminate sails, low stretch rigging, high tech structures, expensive fittings. In 10 years time, some cruising sailors will pick up a bargain. Our DF is far from new, we couldn’t justify £200k for a boat. But it’ll be quite some time before anything definitively quicker comes along, in either case. Lots of fun to be had, our kids will have some fabulous boats to choose from. And they may yet choose a traditional type from thev1970s or before. What’s not to like?

 

[flaming]

Based on zero tariffs mate !

Not the Trumped up rate.

3300 is a £200k boat. Before you've put any sails etc on it.

Even second hand they're going for £160k plus.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

3300 is a £200k boat. Before you've put any sails etc on it.

Even second hand they're going for £160k plus.

That means that if you’re short handed, and just want to sail fast, you’re better off with a DF28. The 3300 must be pretty big down below though. And nobody is ever going to say that about any Dragonfly We took our prospective son in law out on Saturday, he is 6ft4 and 16 stone. Apparently it wasn’t comfortable in the head. But he did manage to close the door.

 

[flaming]

That means that if you’re short handed, and just want to sail fast, you’re better off with a DF28. The 3300 must be pretty big down below though. And nobody is ever going to say that about any Dragonfly We took our prospective son in law out on Saturday, he is 6ft4 and 16 stone. Apparently it wasn’t comfortable in the head. But he did manage to close the door.

I honestly don't suppose anyone is buying a 3300 unless they intend to enter short handed offshore races.

 

[mjcoon]

That means that if you’re short handed, and just want to sail fast, you’re better off with a DF28. The 3300 must be pretty big down below though. And nobody is ever going to say that about any Dragonfly We took our prospective son in law out on Saturday, he is 6ft4 and 16 stone. Apparently it wasn’t comfortable in the head. But he did manage to close the door.

Is "headroom" an oxymoron?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Is "headroom" an oxymoron?

If you’re 6-4 you should look elsewhere. Being a medium sized person at a mere 5-8 I can stand upright in the main area of the saloon. We are so familiar though that we never hit our heads. In any case, it’s all soft apart from the (flush) light fittings. Space wise a DF 920 is like a Contessa 32 with less headroom. Plus you never have to stand diagonally in the cabin. We generally heel about 45 degrees less.

 

[johnalison]

Is "headroom" an oxymoron?

I guess you mean tautology.

 

[mjcoon]

I guess you mean tautology.

No, I was implying that heads with room were incompatible. But it is a matter of scale and priority...

 

[mjcoon]

If you’re 6-4 you should look elsewhere. Being a medium sized person at a mere 5-8 I can stand upright in the main area of the saloon. We are so familiar though that we never hit our heads. In any case, it’s all soft apart from the (flush) light fittings. Space wise a DF 920 is like a Contessa 32 with less headroom. Plus you never have to stand diagonally in the cabin. We generally heel about 45 degrees less.

Doesn't being diagonal give you more headroom?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Doesn't being diagonal give you more headroom?

Not if the coachroof is curved, as they mostly are. Mainly, it’s uncomfortable. It’s a key advantage of multis, and modern monos that they heel less. Some folks find it exciting. In fact it's just slow and wet. Boats like the 3300, and Pogos etc are the future of mono design. This is a very conservative, traditional boat leaning forum, I appreciate that such an opinion isn’t widely held here. They’re not seaworthy, they have big windows, they probably have the wrong anchors But actually they suit the vast majority of people’s sailing. Very very few people cross oceans, many go from one year to the next without losing sight of land. But like it or not, plumb bows, fat arses, asymmetric kites, light displacement and hot and cold water are were it's all headed.

 

[johnalison]

No, I was implying that heads with room were incompatible. But it is a matter of scale and priority...

Ah. I thought you were suggesting it implied head-heads.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Heads with too much room are a potential disaster, it’s true. You look at some cruising cat ‘ben suite bathroom’ at s show and wonder what it would be like to have a pee in wind over tide in the Needles fairway, or off the western Isles