New rigging - what order to do it?

[ash2020]

Just got lovely shiny new rigging and the marina have stepped the mast and tightened the shrouds. They say the forestay is too short and the backstay is too long but it's been made exactly to the old measurements.

It looks to me that I can tighten the forestay a good couple of inches and everything will be fine, but how do you decide how tight the forestay and backstay need to be and what mast angle? It's a masthead rig and the mast won't bend, much too chunky.

Cheers

 

[NickRobinson]

Shorten or lengthen the forestay? (post says yard says too short)?
I am assuming the yard did not make/supply the rig.
If the new stuff is identical, it would appear it must fit, and the yard comments are at best advising the best set and at worst, backside covering.

 

[Gwylan]

Bit more than "tighten" the shrouds.
What tension have they put in the shrouds?

Is the mast set properly? Vertically relative to port and starboard and fore and aft angle relevant for your boat.

 

[andsarkit]

Have a read here for advice from Selden Selden mast guide.
Is there another identical boat nearby so you can compare mast rake etc.

 

[Pye_End]

Selden do a good guide: https://support.seldenmast.com/files/595-540-E.pdf

Rake needs to be sorted first, before tightening. Measure by dropping a halyard with a weight to deck level in calm conditions (afloat) and take distance to mast. Somebody may have a distance for 'best rake' for your boat, but to some extent it depends on how she feels when sailed - ie weather helm/lee helm.

Roller furling headsail might be a complication.

 

[Stemar]

Relative lengths of fore and backstay will set the rake and, with the help of lowers, pre-bend.
As far as tension is concerned, it doesn't matter whether you tension the forestay or the back, tightening one will also tighten the other.

 

[Sandy]

Just got lovely shiny new rigging and the marina have stepped the mast and tightened the shrouds. They say the forestay is too short and the backstay is too long but it's been made exactly to the old measurements.

Did they put the correct bits of wire in the correct places?

 

[Boathook]

Just got lovely shiny new rigging and the marina have stepped the mast and tightened the shrouds. They say the forestay is too short and the backstay is too long but it's been made exactly to the old measurements.

It looks to me that I can tighten the forestay a good couple of inches and everything will be fine, but how do you decide how tight the forestay and backstay need to be and what mast angle? It's a masthead rig and the mast won't bend, much too chunky.

Cheers

Have or did you check the new rigging against the old rigging?

 

[ash2020]

Shorten or lengthen the forestay? (post says yard says too short)?
I am assuming the yard did not make/supply the rig.
If the new stuff is identical, it would appear it must fit, and the yard comments are at best advising the best set and at worst, backside covering.

I think the issue is that the people that made the rigging (who I would trust with my life) are not a "recommended supplier" to the yard.
The yard stepped the mast and the first thing I noticed was they had put the forestay pin in the wrong hole. There is a clear witness mark where it should be. If it was in the right hole it would give an extra 1/2". Plus the forestay is so slack there will be plenty of thread in when I tighten it.

 

[ash2020]

Bit more than "tighten" the shrouds.
What tension have they put in the shrouds?

Is the mast set properly? Vertically relative to port and starboard and fore and aft angle relevant for your boat.

The shrouds are very tight, Forestay is really slack, backstay is wound right in as far as the threads will go. I wasn't expecting them to rig it, just step the mast. I'm intending to do all the setting up when she's on the water, to get the right rake. I guess it will be easier to do the port / stbd whilst in the cradle. I think the rigger that helped the yard guy is wet behind the ears. See above, they had put the pin in the wrong hole and hadn't bothered to tighten the forestay because it is difficult, with the furler plates in the way.

 

[ash2020]

Have a read here for advice from Selden Selden mast guide.
Is there another identical boat nearby so you can compare mast rake etc.

Thanks, that's a very useful article. Sadly there isn't an identical boat nearby. She's a Varne 27 "the best cruiser you've never heard of". There is an owners association but it's not very active. I think it might be a case of adjusting the rake after the first few outings.

 

[ash2020]

Selden do a good guide: https://support.seldenmast.com/files/595-540-E.pdf

Rake needs to be sorted first, before tightening. Measure by dropping a halyard with a weight to deck level in calm conditions (afloat) and take distance to mast. Somebody may have a distance for 'best rake' for your boat, but to some extent it depends on how she feels when sailed - ie weather helm/lee helm.

Roller furling headsail might be a complication.

Thank you for that link. Very useful. She's not on the water yet so I will wait before a final setting. Will I be able to adjust the rake with forestay/backstay without slackening the shrouds?

 

[ash2020]

Relative lengths of fore and backstay will set the rake and, with the help of lowers, pre-bend.
As far as tension is concerned, it doesn't matter whether you tension the forestay or the back, tightening one will also tighten the other.

I think when I get the forestay tightened, (it's very slack ATM) the rake will start to come right. The mast is so chunky all the way up, I can't imagine ever getting any pre-bend in it.

 

[ash2020]

Did they put the correct bits of wire in the correct places?

No they didn't. There's a clear witness mark in a different hole for the forestay pin. When it's in the right hole things will be much better.

 

[ash2020]

Have or did you check the new rigging against the old rigging?

Identical.

 

[Pye_End]

Thank you for that link. Very useful. She's not on the water yet so I will wait before a final setting. Will I be able to adjust the rake with forestay/backstay without slackening the shrouds?

Depends on the rig. Eg if you have twin lowers then unlikely. Final tuning should be done in the water, first getting the top of the mast in the right place.

 

[ghostlymoron]

Depends on how bendy the mast is. My mast is not bendy at all so I just set up the rake and tension fore and aft according to the breaking stress of the wire. I find a Loos gauge convenient but you can just measure with a tape.
I think Vyv Cox has a simple procedure for adjustment on his web site - Cox Engineering.

 

[ash2020]

Depends on how bendy the mast is. My mast is not bendy at all so I just set up the rake and tension fore and aft according to the breaking stress of the wire. I find a Loos gauge convenient but you can just measure with a tape.
I think Vyv Cox has a simple procedure for adjustment on his web site - Cox Engineering.

Thank you for the link. I'm guessing that with a 6mm forestay and backstay I wouldn't be able to get them so tight that they'd be in danger of breaking.