New Member with a question

[FlightChecker]

Hi all, first post.

Just getting into motorboating following a holiday on a hire boat last year, we enjoyed it so much we've decided to buy.

Looking at a 1999 Bayliner 2855 which we've placed an offer on "subject to survey", the boat yard have already told us that it's "showing signs of Osmosis" which will need work within the "medium term"...my questions are:

How big a problem is this on a 10 year old boat?

The boat yard suggested a cost of around £3000 to repair it...is that reasonable?

There seems to a lot of disagreement on the Internet about how big an issue Osmosis is...some say it's very bad - don't go near a boat with it...others say it's not a major issue and is something to be expected on a boat of this age...

I've tried to do as much research as possible online...but i just don't have the knowledge to make a properly informed decision!

Any information that you can supply would be gratefully recieved, cheers!

 

[rafiki_]

Osmosis on a 10 year boat is unusual. It can be treated effectively, but the boat must be properly dried out for a good repair.

You have to ask yourself if you want to take this on, or look for another boat. There will be plenty of others, without osmosis problems.

 

[oldsaltoz]

Hi all, first post.

Just getting into motorboating following a holiday on a hire boat last year, we enjoyed it so much we've decided to buy.

Looking at a 1999 Bayliner 2855 which we've placed an offer on "subject to survey", the boat yard have already told us that it's "showing signs of Osmosis" which will need work within the "medium term"...my questions are:

How big a problem is this on a 10 year old boat?

The boat yard suggested a cost of around £3000 to repair it...is that reasonable?

There seems to a lot of disagreement on the Internet about how big an issue Osmosis is...some say it's very bad - don't go near a boat with it...others say it's not a major issue and is something to be expected on a boat of this age...

I've tried to do as much research as possible online...but i just don't have the knowledge to make a properly informed decision!

Any information that you can supply would be gratefully recieved, cheers!

G'day FlightChecker and welcome aboard the WBW forums,

If you type osmosis into the search you will see lots of threads on the subject.

Bottom line:
at just 10 years old I would not expect osmosis, also the estimate is rubbish, go to a company that specialise in osmosis treatment and a realistic figure for a decent job.

Deduct this amount plus any other expenses involved like lift out//in, storage, surveyor checks and so, form your offer.

It's also a good idea to make the sale subject to sea trials, this will give tou the chance to everthing works and is in reasonable condition.

Which brings us to the most important question.
Have had, or do you plan to have the engine/s and drive train checked by an Engineer?

A ten year old power boat is one that may well be on the brink of some major mechanical repairs and extensive servicing and refurbishment.

Find out what is involved BEFORE you commit would be my advice. there are plenty more just like it out there, so take your time, look at as many as possible and then another 20.

Your boat is out there you just may not have found it yet.

PS if it has out-drives (and I think they do) don't walk away......RUN.

Hope this helps.

Avagoodweekend......

 

[volvopaul]

There are plenty of good boats out there for sale at reasonable money without osmosis, I would be very weary, ive seen boats a young as 4 years old with it.

Trust me you dont need the hassle of waiting for delivery after buying and all the extra pittfalls of the repairs.

Look elsewhere unless its really cheap compared to others, it also depends on who does the work and the guarrantee you will get as it can if not done properly come back, and unles they are genine and play ball your stuck with it.

On a boat that age with petrol direct cooled v6 or v8 engines you may be also looking at £££££ of work regarding the state of the exhaust manifolds and riser pipes, as there direct cooled from the sea cast iron manifold dont like being hit with salt water and corrode very soon, so get a engine/ survey check as you could be also stuck with that too.

 

[blueglass]

Osmosis is one of those things that although not the end of the world and is fixable if not too advanced - there is still however a stigma which will remain with the boat and it will inevitably rear its head again when you come to sell.
As mentioned above - save yourself a lot of grief and find a boat with shafts. 10 year old outdrives are just a constant source of problems.

 

[FlightChecker]

Thanks a lot for the responses, i've arranged a survey so i guess we'll wait and see what that says.

The offer accepted is £4500 under the original asking price, making it seem like a good deal...is £27K good for a 10 year old Bayliner?

 

[rafiki_]

It is impossible to say of £27k is good or bad, without understanding the spec, and how well she has been maintained.

I guess you have looked at a number of the on-line sales sites. These will give a guide.


As other comments above, it is much easier to buy a boat than sell, so make sure you buy the right one for you.

 

[Whitelighter]

Hi there,

Firstly, the Bayliner 2855 (later the 285) is a great starter boat, as it has good accomodation and a suprisingly sea kindly hull when you consider a lot of US boats are designed for very benign waters.

The Osmosis isnt great, but it depends on how much and where it is. It wont kill the boat if treated correctly, but you need to find out the extent of the ptoblem and get realistic costs to properly repair the damaged area - dont try to scrimp here. It needs to be done to the best finish otherwaise the value of the boat will drop.

With regard to is £27k a good price for the boat, as others have said with a 10 year old boat it very much depends on specification and condition. One thing I will say with these, is check if it is a boat imported into the EU by the manufacturer or weather it was grey imported after it was a few years old by an individual. There is nothing wrong with a grey import, provided that all the docuemntation is correct and that it complies with the CE requirements of the EU. The boat should have a CE plate visible in the cockpit and a certificate of conformity in the documents. For now, I will assume it is either an EU boat or a correctly marked grey import. 2000 was the year Bayliner massively updated this model, and changed the hull and deck moulds. They carried over the name 2855 but the 1999 and 2000 boats are very different.

The question I have for you is does it look like this:

Or like this:

If it is the first model, then I would say £27k is even a little high for a UK/EU boat with no major problems. Certainly, I would be wanting to get around 120% of the cost of fully repairing the osmosis damage knocked off that price of £27k, and then probably a little more.

If the model is the second one, then the price is better as it is the later and much better boat. Even so, I dont think £27k is a bargain. A reasonable price if it is a UK/EU boat, but if its an import I would want a reduction again.

To put it into context, Essex Boatyards have a UK specified and supplied 2003 Bayliner 285, which has the upgraded blue hull and updated interior. It has the fuel injected MAG350 engine and a good level of kit. on for £36k so can be purchased for around £31-£32k I would imagine. I dont know what you funding is like, but if you can I would stretch to the later boat. Link to that craft is here: http://www.essexboatyards.com/boats/view.php/701/Bayliner 285.html

Hope all that helps...

 

[crazy4557]

It really needs to be so cheap that you can't afford to turn it down. I personally don't think £27k is anywhere near the right level when you compare it to the EBY one at potentially £32k'ish

Any boat with history of osmosis will be bottom of my list and many other's if I was looking to buy one.
I've bought a few boats but wouldn't touch one like this unless it was a bargain. There's plenty more out there without the hassle factor...who needs that with their first boat?

 

[lovezoo]

I've been looking at similar sized boats (25 footish) and from what I have seen petrol boats at this size are only selling if they are bargain priced.

Eg this 2001 Bayliner 2855 has just sold on ebay for 27K:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260539801562&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Which does make a 1999 boat with osmosis issues at 27K seem expensive. I would also be concerned as to how much petrol is going to cost in the next year or so, as that is a lot of boat to be moving around with a petrol engine.

 

[Firefly625]

Hi Flightchecker, welcome to the forum. Just looked through this thread and there is a wealth of really good advice here, there are members who have responded that are "in" the industry, they are not just bar stool experts, so I have nothing to add that has not already been said. I suggest you read and read again this thread and don't feel embarrassed to walk away from this boat you are looking at or feel by anyway committed at this stage. The brokers I am sure will be putting pressure on you as I imagine they can't believe their luck to have sold this Binliner, sorry Bayliner with osmosis!

As everyone says there are plenty of problem free boats out there...and for similar money to the one you are looking at!...
.......... why buy one with a problem, you will experience enough issues with boat ownership over the years without starting off with one hell of a big one!

Let us know what you do!

 

[FlightChecker]

Thanks for all of your responses to my thread, the good news is, having had a survey completed by an idependent surveyor, the osmosis problem is only a minor concern.

The survey brought up only one further small issue and we have therefore agreed to go ahead with the purchase....having managed to reduce the offered amount to substantially lower than the asking price.

I am now looking forward to taking posession of the boat next week!

 

[enterprise]

Hi Flightchecker,
Get your new boat into the workshop for the remedial work while you have the money, it will soon go on other things if you dont.
Once done have it epoxied with gelshield etc for piece of mind.

Have a great summer (if we get one this year).
Where are you going to berth her?

 

[Doods]

Hi Flightchecker
Three years back we were looking for a new boat. Spotted a nice one but it had osmosis and it was only eight years old. After talking to the broker it looked like I could get the boat for circa 12% down on price against any similiar boat. Finally decided to walk away and bought another boat. Saw the original osmosis boat up for sale with another broker nine months later and the price was still down but the boat wasnt shifting.
Could have been a good boat but it does have a stigma, and that only comes in to play when you want to sell. Glade I decided to walk away. That said if you get the deal you want and if you are ready for whats going to happen when you come to sell its, well its your call.
Hope you enjoy the new boat what ever one you get.

 

[sundancer9000]

osmosis why waste your time

why cause yourself anoyance and maybe cash? There has never been more bargains buying boats than now(due to recession). Shop around and let some other fool or complete expert pick up the pieces of an osmosis ridden nightmare.

 

[enterprise]

Reading into OP's last post they have decided to proceed with the purchase, if the discount was good it may prove to be a good purchase, however if there was any mention of osmosis in the survey then this will no doubt raise the question again when they decide to sell.
If they have paid well below the market price (not just the asking price) then the eventual depreciation (+ the osmosis devaluation) would probably be the same as buying a boat without problems.
I can however see the problem in the future as any concealment of known defects without disclosure will cause selling problems, unless they find a buyer who is willing to take the chance like the OP has done on this occasion.

What you would need to know is if you could get the same discount off a boat without problems, not knowing how much the OP has eventually paid then we will never know if it was a good buy or not.

 

[gjgm]

Reading into OP's last post they have decided to proceed with the purchase, if the discount was good it may prove to be a good purchase, however if there was any mention of osmosis in the survey then this will no doubt raise the question again when they decide to sell.
If they have paid well below the market price (not just the asking price) then the eventual depreciation (+ the osmosis devaluation) would probably be the same as buying a boat without problems.
I can however see the problem in the future as any concealment of known defects without disclosure will cause selling problems, unless they find a buyer who is willing to take the chance like the OP has done on this occasion.

What you would need to know is if you could get the same discount off a boat without problems, not knowing how much the OP has eventually paid then we will never know if it was a good buy or not.

Are you correct, here? The survey is for the buyer only.. it isnt for the next buyer, so there is no need to pass this survey on.
Also, if the osmosis is repaired, surely there is no concealment? The boat no longer has (known) osmosis. The OP mentions its only a small area, so I'd imagine we arent talking about s major issue.

 

[enterprise]

Im not sure, I must admit but if asked about a previous repair by a buyers surveyor (any good surveyor will spot a repair) would you disclose the reasons for the repair?

The signs of osmosis 'now' are in a small area, I would guess, unless its a defect, the problem will manifest itself elsewhere, its not going away, repair the effected area but worry about the hull and next survey big time while owning it, not something a new owner should be complacent about.

Big discounts are only good if below real market value (taking account of the osmosis), not so good if the discount is the same as that which could have been off a boat without problems.

Two simillar boats both identical price, one with osmosis one without, new owner tries a bid of £10k below asking price for the one with osmosis which is accepted, buys the boat and spends £5k on repair, should he have tried a £10k bid for the one without problems?, who knows, but one things certain whichever boat they buy it will be a lot of fun and hopefully not a white elephant when they look to sell it.