New member, new Weston 670 owner

Engine

I see all the posts here for 9.9-15 / 20 / 25 hp engines but I think a bit of "offshore" mentality has kicked in here.

We haven't asked you what your use will be.

If you intend to cruise in harbours, inshore and / or a little bit coastal I would completely agree a 20hp would be good - however if you are thinking of keeping it inland on the rivers etc then you don't need anything LIKE that big. Remember that unless you have enough power to get "over the hump" then no engine will push you significantly above hull speed so unless the OP fits a 90+HP motor - there is a limit to how fast it will go.

Back "when I were a lad" we had a Buckingham 20 (was 21' loa) and we had a 6hp Perkins outboard on it (no-one remembers them!) Eventually my Mum gave Dad the ultimatum that whilst he loved tinkering with engines, she was NOT towing the boat back to the mooring by hand any more - and the engine was replaced or the boat went.

Being a young kid, I was all for him bolting a 175hp on the back!

However he bought an 8hp Yamaha and it was actually a bit too powerful for the canal we were on - we had a 4knt limit and that was literally just over tickover. Even with a 100:1 oil/fuel mix, it did oil up it's plugs every so often, a 6hp would have been plenty.

Having said that, when we took the boat to the Norfolk Broads with its open lake spaces, we could go full throttle a few times - oh those heady 5knt moments......

Remember, it's only about 23ft - so I'm thinking a hull speed of 6-8knts (someone on here will correct that I am sure) and most inland rivers / canals have a 5knt limit - so well below hull speed. I actually think you only need about 8hp. I agree you need bigger if you will be exposed to lots of wind but otherwise it's utterly pointless. Remember originally 60ft barges with hundreds of tonnes of coal were moved by literally 1 horsepower (i.e. 1 actual horse) and still made 2-3knts.

A 20hp will not get the boat on the plane, so you will never be able to get more than about 1knt over hull speed - and all you are doing is adding weight, cost and fuel burn. You need the engine to be able to attach to remotes (usually 5hp and up) and have an external tank (again 5hp and up). You would also benefit from fitting a high thrust prop, as you need thrust not speed (or try and get a sailpower / saildrive / bigfoot motor in the first place).

If you can get an electric start that will usually have a charger on it, to top up your batteries as well so that's a nice feature (we didn't have that on ours and Dad had to fit a charging circuit to it.

If you can find one - a Sailpower type motor is ideal as they tend to have a high thrust prop, and a charger already on them even if they are pull start.

Also, do NOT assume you need a long shaft Boats of this type are often short shaft. Have you measured it? From the top of where the outboard sits down to the bottom of the hull. If its' somewhere in the region of 15-16" you need a short shaft and 20-21" a long (I'd be amazed if you needed an extra long.

I also don't know if I'd pay more to have power trim on this kind of boat - why do you need it? And the trim, rams and so on are all more to go wrong.

Probably the best one I can find is this one. Plenty of power unless you are going coastal / inshore, brand new, good make and a high-thrust engine - everything you need - you just need to find out if you need a long or short shaft:- Tohatsu - MFS8B L Sail - 8hp 4 stroke Tiller, Long Shaft Saildrive Outboard 0% 12month Cre in Gwynedd, Wales | Boats and Outboards

This could be a good all rounder Yamaha - 9.9HP High Thrust FT9.9AE Long Shaft 4-Stroke Outboard & Remotes in Cambridgeshire, Eastern | Boats and Outboards --- however the phrase "Runs well for age" is a worry - it either runs well or it doesn't!

Something like this would be ok if you need a long shaft and are going to stick to rivers and canals Tohatsu - JANUARY Special! 6hp Sail Pro Engine Tiller Handle, Short Shaft in Gwynedd, Wales | Boats and Outboards

This would be better if you want to go more on tidal rivers and areas with strong currents and / or winds

This looks a decent buy if you need a short shaft Yamaha - F9.9 FMHS in Devon, South West | Boats and Outboards

This looks a really good buy - a bigfoot 25hp so loads of thrust, but due to the lower pitch prop you won't be running at tickover constantly - Mercury - 25h.p. bigfoot Long shaft in Tyne & Wear, North East | Boats and Outboards - I know this goes against what I said about power above - but at this price it's fine you just won't use 90% of it's power.

Also just seen this - Mercury - 9.9HP COMMAND THRUST IN STOCK!! LONG SHAFT for NEXT DAY DELIVERY or COLLECTION in Cambridgeshire, Eastern | Boats and Outboards brand new and a decent price (I think).

Note I have only checked Boats and Outboards - more will be on eBay etc.


Lastly, we also fitted a rubber pad onto the engine mount which we attached the engine to - this massively reduced noise and vibration - we used a cut up lorry inner tube - you could call a roofer who uses EPDM roofing and ask if he has an old offcut (he will have loads) he'll probably let you have it for nothing - put a layer or two of that on your transom before you fit the engine and it will make a world of difference.

Also fit a rudder to the outboard (see the Yamaha 9.9 above - this will massively improve steerage.

Hope that's of use
 
Ontheplane, thank you so much for taking the time to write this in response to my original post. It is appreciated. A great many options there and also links to place where motors can be bought that I was unaware of.

At this point in time I cannot see myself getting off inland waterways - canals and rivers - so no estuary work or the like. If that changes in the future I would likely upgrade the engine anyway. As you might have seen from the boat I am certainly in the market to expend less than a fortune on the boat and much of my money will be spent making the interior habitable and a pleasant place to be.

I mentioned long shaft due to the seller telling me that is what he would recommend for the boat and he himself had insight into engines, but you are correct - taking my own measurements would be wise, and it certainly appears to be the case that the engine is already quite low to the water and a short shaft could easily do the job...the boat has a fairly shallow draught - less than 2 feet.

Many of the engines you recommend are tiller controlled. Likely a basic question but I assume on these the tiller can be removed and a remotes kit added for power and steering?

I will take some time to look at the links this afternoon and educate myself.
 
2ft draft, plus the freeboard where the outboard mounts, would indicate ultra long shaft to me. In fact I doubt that 2ft draft is correct, unless the previous owners was including the outboard in that. Measuring is the only way forward, but in my experience I suspect it will be long shaft.

As for tiller/manual start Vs Remote steering and electric start, it is best to get a motor that is set up for what you need. It is not always cheap to swap between them. The bolt on the end of the steering cable is designed to drop into the hole on the handle that many small outboards have, or at worst you may need an additional small bracket, so that side of things will be easy. If you try to turn a manual start into an electric start things get complicated and expensive, so I would definitely look for a motor that is already electric start. This should also deliver charging for your boat's battery, which a manual start motor won't.
 
Measure.

I suspect 2' draft is wrong - but make sure you measure it properly - Dad's old Buckingham was only a 6" draft to bottom of hull from waterline.

It could well be longshaft you need, and if that's what you need that is absolutely what to buy, way too dear to convert a short-shaft.

I would agree that elec start is nice too as it will charge your batteries.

Most (if not all) Tiller engines can be fitted to remotes over around 5/6 hp - however remote engines do not have a tiller..... So safer to buy a tiller engine (just check it will attach) and then unbolt the tiller.

But I repeat - Sailpower or High Thrust every time for what you are using - ours wasn't and the engine was always trying to fight itself trying to push a heavy boat faster than the rev's allowed. What I mean by that is something like an 8HP normal outboard is set up with a prop to push a small dinghy or rib at or beyond planing speed. When you fit it to a large heavy slow boat it's badly matched. A sailpower type motor is lower geared with a larger, lower pitched high thrust prop - so you get the thrust, but the top speed is way lower - that's actually what you need on that boat. You can buy high thrust props for standard outboards, but they still aren't best geared for that application.
 
You may well all be right - I've gone by the stats that I have found online but as there is no official Weston literature anywhere on the internet these might all be guesses. This link: Weston 670 - (1989) £4,250 VAT paid - Broadland Yacht Brokers being an example of the stats I have seen.

Some great examples of engines there and your notes about the tiller/remote steering is very useful. Seems that electric start is not negotiable as I will want that and something that can help charge whatever batteries are on onboard. Thank you.

I'll keep the thread updated and the coming few months will see some posts and pictures as I get it ready for the spring. It's all very interesting and exciting.
 
Many years ago we had a weston 560 - 18ft with an open cockpit instead of the aft cabin. It was fitted with a volvo penta 40hp long shaft outboard .
We had great fun with it for a couple of years, now progressed to a Fairline phantom 43 different type of fun;)
 
fred247 said:
Many years ago we had a weston 560 - 18ft with an open cockpit instead of the aft cabin. It was fitted with a volvo penta 40hp long shaft outboard .
We had great fun with it for a couple of years, now progressed to a Fairline phantom 43 different type of fun;)
Click to expand...

Your Fairline is a wonderful looking boat (had to look it up of course). You should be rightly proud of it. Seems I have an upward trajectory to attain to :) Pleased you enjoyed the Weston however - I have read good views of them on the few occasions they've been discussed - after I had already bought it of course. The centre cockpit and frame limits the 'open-air fun' a little but it's a good start and no complaints.
 
175 would be an inboard I guess. You should find a plate on it somewhere giving the max HP. I doubt its a heavy boat, so given it will take that sort of power you could put a larger outboard on if you wanted it to plane, but you do need to know the transom's max, and I wouldn't put that much on as a modern 4 stroke weighs a good 30-40% more than the 2 strokes it would have been designed for.
 
Thanks again to you Ontheplane. I bought the 9.9 older Yamaha in the end. An unexpected purchase but it matches the ethos of the project considering I have to work on the interior as well. If it turns out to be unreliable then I can upgrade, but I think it worth the negligible risk. I appreciate you having put the time in to give me some options. The seller will be fitting it as well.

My electrician friend is going to help me rewire the 12v system on the boat - there's some very old lights in there and it needs an upgrade so multiple batteries and LED in the near future. Headlining is going to be purchased in the coming weeks, but that aside I don't think much will be done until the New Year.
 
It's been over a year since I posted here. To recap, I bought a boat when drunk, online unseen.

There was me thinking I'd have time to do the boat up, take it out, and put my feet up. What a fool I was! I mean, really. I've had a year like most people - working to catch up with the time I'd lost during lockdown and going from one project to another without a thought of relaxing. Time for an update however as it was suggested that as I work on the boat I keep people up to date and post some pictures, which I'm happy to do as you can learn from my mistakes.

To save you looking through the whole thread the boat is a Weston 670, which seem fairly rare (which I admit is not the same as exotic). It's largely an enclosed boat but you can remove the canvas roof and get a bit of sun. Galley between two seating areas and a toilet area. Seems pretty tough for what it is and as it's the first boat of someone who knows nothing about mucking about on a river, it'll do just fine. It is moored near Ely and is 'cream'. I bought it minus a motor, but have since bought a 1980s Yamaha 4-stroke which is now fitted and running well via a very vintage 701 remote.

Back at the marina today having not visited for about 6 months and the boat is all rather grimy. In the foreground are the two leisure batteries I will be wiring to provide power for lights and USB charge sockets.



The motor is what I could charitably refer to as a classic, but it runs well and also has a charge out so can keep the batteries topped-up. Nice of some avian visitor to take a crap atop the motor.




There's some old bits and bobs in the storage areas, but thankfully I can keep my lower unit lubricated:



I have this on the dash - laugh at my lack of knowledge but my guess is this tells me the depth of the water below me, via some sort of voodoo? Please feel free to correct me or tell me how it works.



Gas canister is in here.

Foot pump for the sink which leaks a little. I have seen new ones are not expensive. It sits next to the gas oven.




...and plenty of older lighting which is going to be replaced with LED to save power and give a bit more pzazz.



Here's the front of the boat now. All the old rotten foam has gone and new ones will be fitted. It's all very straightforward in here. Headlining had been bought and is going to be glued in place before the blue plastic padding is recovered . The trick is making it a pleasant place to spend some time. Now it's all been cleaned out of junk I can see how that can become a reality. The interior will be done first, with wiring being the next step.



So that's that. Not a great deal of progress over the past year, but now we are getting somewhere. Thanks for reading and once I start doing things I will update regularly, likely with daft questions. All advice welcome.
 
The depth sounder will have a transducer in the bottom of the hull somewhere which used sonar to bounce signals of the riverbed and the time taken gives the depth, there's no voodoo involved, the transducer probably sits in a tube full of oil bonded to the hull, they can see through grp but any air bubbles mess up the reading hence the oil bath, they can be siliconed straight to the hull but there must be no trapped air.
Nice to see you getting somewhere with it, that's pretty much how I started out with boats with an old norman 18.5 on the cam at upwood.
 
Thank you both for the replies. I am pretty sure I know where the transducer is - something resembling a tin of beans bonded to the inside of the hull. Appreciate you clearing that up.
 
Does anyone know of a company who have templates for the Weston 670 Side doors (Port and Starboard) and the cock-pit canopy?

Creative Covers the original manufacturer seem to have gone out of business.
 
Martin-C said:
Does anyone know of a company who have templates for the Weston 670 Side doors (Port and Starboard) and the cock-pit canopy?

Creative Covers the original manufacturer seem to have gone out of business.
Click to expand...

Hello Martin. Have I found that rarest of things - a Weston 670 owner on this forum?

I am nearing the point where I shall be replacing my own canopy and side doors and have had contact from a couple of places. One that did seem promising was Marine Canvas Hut - info@marinecanvashut.co.uk - who are local to me and seemed to be able to do the work. I also got a positive reply from Titan Boat Canopies (sales@titanboatcanopies.com). Cost wise I recall we were looking at around £300 - £350 for each item - they would not have the original templates I am guessing.
 
We had Titan come to look at ours, but they were unsure about the surround for the doors. The top cover was not seen as being a problem. The covers that I currently have fitted have a legal or Creative Covers and our local marina believes they were the original manufactures for Weston Boats of Colchester, but they seem to have gone out of business. If anyone else has any thoughts it looks as if two of us are now interested.
 
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