New in UK - please help :)

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luismoed

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Hi together,

I am fairly new in UK (living here for 2 years already) and I am about to buy my first sailboat here. So, it happens, I am a bit lost :( can someone help me? :)
My other boats were in the tropical areas of the world, so i am really concerned about winter, also I am lost regarding where to have the boat, and although i am just registered and this is my first post, i hope many more to come :) the points I am looking for advice are:
1) where to keep the boat, I am living in Milton Keynes, so i am 1:40 to 2:20 to every part of the coast, it is about the same time distance to go to Thames estuary, Solent or Bristol Channel. I would love to be only 30 min away, but it is not possible :(, so my options look like: Bristol, I kinda like it, seems to have a lot of things to see in south Wales up to Scilly islands, but i am concenr about tides. Thames, might be the closest to me and even possible to get there easily by train/tube, but i am not sure if worth to leave the boat there or just visit every now and then. Solent, seems to be the favourite place around, but i am not sure about nice places to visit and see and i am afraid that during the summer time i would be stuck in jams for too many hours before get to the boat... any advice one could offer ?
2) any special license need for the skipper (me)? i do have a coastal accreditation from another country (Brazil) where i had a sailboat previously. it is worldwide recognised for coastal navigation (up to 30nm off coast, but not ocean crossing), but will expire in 5 years and needs to be re-validated, since i dont plan to get to Brazil just to renew it, is there any specific license i should have in UK or any program to exchange my license for an UK one?
3) any special arrangement needed if i would sail to France/Belgium/Netherlands? or just the regular customs/passport control at the entry port? also, how complex/time consuming is to get it done? for example, if i would have 3-4 days off, i could easily cross from Dover to Calais, stay there a couple days and return. is it possible or awful paperwork to get it done and only viable for longer visits?
4) winter: well... in brazil, that is never a concern, what about UK? is it necessary to get special winter arrangements, like, berths, covers, etc? what would be the minimum needs and the recommended needs? I would not bother to be on the boat at least 1 weekend a month to fire the engine and to do some basically maintenance, in this situation should i still haul it off? or jsut for the regular antifouling, etc?

I am in the process of buy the boat itself, i am deciding between a 33-35 foot used (up to 2011) boat or a new (around 31 foot) sailboat. again, i am familiar with the boat itself, but should i look for anything specific just because i am in UK (cold country), for example, heating? my point is, although i know about boats, i have no clue about a boat in a cold country (in Brazil the winter was around 30oC) so i am curious if i am overlooking something ... any ideas?

thanks and please be nice on my first post here :)
 
Milton Keynes to Ipswich: About 2 hours. Dual carriage way almost all the way. Far enough from London to make it easy on a Friday evening :-)

Then you have a choice of marinas: Ipswich Haven, Foxes, Levington, Shotley etc.
Easy weekend trips (River Alde, Deben, Stour, Colne, Blackwater); good mid length holidays (Southwold, Burnham, Mersea, Maldon), and longer trips (Lowestoft, Netherlands, London, North Kent, etc).

No special license required. Although, with a license, your insurance company might like it :-)

Travelling abroad: In general is easy. In specifics, then ask just before you go! You need paperwork and passports handy...

Winter: Any of the marinas mentioned will give advice as to lift out or leave in, and will arrange it for you. Many people lift out every year, from end November to early April. Others lift out every 2 or 3 years...

Buying a boat: Make sure you visit Southampton Boat Show the llast 2 weeks of September: A great way of seeing many boats at the same time. But don't buy, just because its very comfortable in the marina! It needs to be seaworthy as well :-)
 
The question is not just which place is nearest but which is the easier drive with the least chance of being caught in a traffic jam and has alternative routes available. Any trip involving the M25 is therefore going to be unsatisfactory.

The East Coast has its advantages in providing the largest area of sheltered water. It is said with good reason that if you can sail here, you can sail anywhere.

The British way is to buy a boat and go sailing and to hell with any paperwork. With the exception of a VHF operator's license, this is what many of us have done, though cautious types like me also get a Certificate of Competence, which foreigners seem to like, and boat insurance to satisfy out wives. I have heard that there are some smart bits of paper available to those willing to jump rough hoops, issued by the RYA.
 
Already some good replies re Where to sail but I would re-iterate the bit about travelling. IF your sailing will mainly be at weekends then you need a reliable route. Friday PM travelling in the UK I nice weather is atrocious!

With regard to formalities, no need for any specific documents / licenses except a Ships Radio Licence ( Free online) and a VHF operators License if you have a radio. 1 day course to get that. No Compulsory "Skippers License" but the RYA do a widely available and recognised scheme that will take you from Novice to Ocean Sailor. http://www.rya.org.uk/courses-training/courses/sail-cruising/Pages/hub.aspx If you have already done plenty of sailing then one of the yachtmaster ones would be the next likely step but ONLY IF YOU WANT TO.

As for the practicalities of sailing in the UK.

A Sprayhood / doghouse / pilothouse / wheelhouse is valuable. This give you the ability to shelter if there is a bit of rain / heavy spray. Few boats with Pilothouse/ Wheel hosue built new but plenty available 2nd hand so most have a fabric sprayhood made. Also look at boats with a fixed "glass" windscreen and then a sprayhood over that as a slight improvement.

Many boats will also have dodgers, canvas that is attached to the guardrails next to the cockpit and will keep the rain, wind, spray etc from coming sideways at you. Finally - many will go for a full cockpit enclosure to turn the cockpit into a fully enclosed additional area. Not much use underway but great when moored.

Heating is pretty much essential. Most have blown air from someone like webasto, Eberspacher etc. but for real hardcore winter sailing something like a solid fuel stove is great.

As for the boat in the winter. Most people do lift out. Some insurance companies don't like some types of mooring being in use over the winter, especially if they are not sheltered. Marinas will give cheap winter deals afloat and look for packages from boatyards for several months ashore with lift in and out. The magazines usually do a full article about laying up which are worth reading byut in summary, remove perishables, take off sails / sprayhood, Dodgers etc and get cleaned, repaired, stored somewhere. Service all the equipment on board in line with manufacturers instructions, drain the fresh water, fil the diesel tank and if you have shore power, leave with frost heaters / dehumidifier. No power , leave with good ventilation.

Welcome to the UK!!
 
Hey Luis,

Have you managed to get any sailing done in the 2 years you have been here ? If not I'd probably not rush to buy one and go crew for a season in the different areas. There is never any shortage of skippers needing crew on any coast. Crewing will also give you some insight into what works well in different places. For example you don't really want anything with a draught of more than 2m if you want to explore the east coast anchorages.

1) I live on the East coast but most of my sailing is now South coast based and my boat is kept on the Hamble. The commute to the boat is a bit of a faff but at the end of the day I don't go out for day sails and tend to, at the very least, make a long weekend of any trip. If you are going to be the kind of boat owner that does all your own jobs then the east coast is a realistic option however if you want experienced tradesmen/women to do work for you then they are much harder to find on the east coast. In the Solent area there is an abundance of riggers, marine engineers etc. and whole area is really geared up for us sailing types.. In terms of nice places to visit there are lots along the UK coast. The waters on the east coast are typically muddy and brown while anything west of the Solent and IoW tends to be green. Channel hopping is easy but realistically you have more choice when starting from the South Coast. Finally marina costs. I'd like to tell you that the East Coast is cheaper but realistically there isn't much in it anymore. I dry-sail out of Universal Marina and the cost for a season with 24 lift cycles is no more than keeping the same boat on a marina on the River Orwell and paying £150 a time for a haul and scrub throughout the season.

2) No formal sailing qualifications are required for you unless you plan on going much further afield. You should have a VHF operator's license ( as well as ships license )

3) You will want to make sure that anything you buy is on the Small Ships Register (SSR), that you have adequate insurance for the sea area in which you sail and you have a ships radio license that matches the kit you have onboard ( VHF, EPIRB, Radar transponder etc. )

Good luck
 
I would add that although laying up ashore is usual, it is by no means essential. I keep my boat in a marina and generally spend 2/3 winters afloat. This has several advantages, being easier on the hull and making the boat available to visit, or even sail. Precautions mainly need to be made against damp rather than cold, though engine and fresh water systems need to be protected.

Heater, sprayhood and cockpit protection are for wimps. Along with many people we managed without for thirty years. I am now a wimp.
 
Hi,

thanks for all the feedback, very much appreciated.
I did a further look on East vs Solent and unless i missed something, East seems to be cheaper. i think around 4k/year (+- 20%) on east vs 6k/year (+-20%) on Solent. So lest see how much money left after i buy the boat :D
On papers part, i like the comment: "The British way is to buy a boat and go sailing and to hell with any paperwork", but that triggers another question: I would assume some transfer papers (like the car) should be made/arranged right? is it the same i should keep in the boat for proof of anything or just sail around?

thanks for the tips on the heater/sprayhood/cockpit protection.

I will be on the southhampton boatshow and likely on London boatshow in January. i will post the results once everything is set. meanwhile, thanks for all the feedback!
 
I used to live in Bedford, and kept the boat on the Orwell on the east coast. The trip was straightforward and the traffic was rarely a problem. On the occaisions when I have kept the boat on the south coast, the traffic to get round London was typically awful

Further advantages are the range of less crowded sailing areas, and cheaper mooring options.
 
I live v near MK. I will comment only on travel time to sailing areas. At one time I had a share on a boat on the Solent as well as one on the East Coast. Now I'm reduced to one only on the East Coast:
Travel to boat. East Coast, Ipswich area a consistent 1:50 to 2 hours for me. Solent, Gosport very inconsistent but 2:30 to 3:30
Costs; East Coast about 60% of Solent costs ( not entirely true for me as I had a club mooring on the South Coast), also very much fewer anchorages or cheap/free visitor bouys on the Solent.
Sailing: For Day sailing or week-end sailing the East Coast has many more options and is much much less crowded. The one big advantage of the Solent is that you are critically closer to "abroad" or to the good cruising areas of Devon, Cornwall, and Brittanny. Also much more lively racing scene. From the East Coast you are battling the prevailing winds to get west as I know from bitter experience this summer, where on a three week trip we managed only to get as far as the Isle of Wight ( and back), mind you I am now very familiar with all the tourist spots in Ramsgate after spending three days in each direction there!

So my firm advice is to start on the East Coast and after a few years you may conisder a move - perhaps to somewhere warmer, Mallorca anyone?
 
luismoed said:
another question: I would assume some transfer papers (like the car) should be made/arranged right? is it the same i should keep in the boat for proof of anything or just sail ?
Click to expand...

You are not required to keep any papers on the boat, though papers will be necessary if you go abroad. I keep my papers in a briefcase which sometimes lives at home and sometimes on the boat. You are more likely to be struck by lightning than to be asked for papers when sailing in British waters under a British flag. Assuming you will have a radio, you will need licenses for this as stated above, but although it may be practicable to keep these on board, I'm not aware that they need to be on board at all times. Proof of ownership is only necessary if someone chooses to challenge it. I suppose that proof of payment of VAT (tax) is necessary, but again, only if it is challenged.

We have almost complete freedom to come and go as we please, and no obligation to log our journeys before or after departure. The current immigration problems may change this to some extent, and there was talk of yachtsmen being required to register with the immigration authorities before and after a passage to or from Europe or elsewhere, but I haven't heard anything about this lately.
 
johnalison said:
You are not required to keep any papers on the boat, though papers will be necessary if you go abroad. I keep my papers in a briefcase which sometimes lives at home and sometimes on the boat. You are more likely to be struck by lightning than to be asked for papers when sailing in British waters under a British flag. Assuming you will have a radio, you will need licenses for this as stated above, but although it may be practicable to keep these on board, I'm not aware that they need to be on board at all times. Proof of ownership is only necessary if someone chooses to challenge it. I suppose that proof of payment of VAT (tax) is necessary, but again, only if it is challenged.

We have almost complete freedom to come and go as we please, and no obligation to log our journeys before or after departure. The current immigration problems may change this to some extent, and there was talk of yachtsmen being required to register with the immigration authorities before and after a passage to or from Europe or elsewhere, but I haven't heard anything about this lately.
Click to expand...

The OP is Brazilian, so not an EU citizen, so may perhaps be more complicated if travelling to Europe by yacht, or even returning into UK with non EU passport.
 
johnalison said:
You are not required to keep any papers on the boat, though papers will be necessary if you go abroad. I keep my papers in a briefcase which sometimes lives at home and sometimes on the boat. You are more likely to be struck by lightning than to be asked for papers when sailing in British waters under a British flag. Assuming you will have a radio, you will need licenses for this as stated above, but although it may be practicable to keep these on board, I'm not aware that they need to be on board at all times. Proof of ownership is only necessary if someone chooses to challenge it. I suppose that proof of payment of VAT (tax) is necessary, but again, only if it is challenged.

We have almost complete freedom to come and go as we please, and no obligation to log our journeys before or after departure. The current immigration problems may change this to some extent, and there was talk of yachtsmen being required to register with the immigration authorities before and after a passage to or from Europe or elsewhere, but I haven't heard anything about this lately.
Click to expand...

Check your License. It says The ship's Radio License, any variation authorisation and a valid operator's License should be on board at all times, where practicable. But I think should be on board whenever you are using the craft.
 
If all your experience has been on the other side of the Atlantic you won't be used to the local buoyage. The Americas are part of IALA region B, the UK and Europe are part of region A. I'm no expert on this, but I believe the main difference is that the colour coding of lateral buoys are the other way round.

It might be a good idea to do a local RYA Day Skipper theory course. It's not essential, but it would help you enjoy your sailing rather than finding out everything the hard way. If you decide to just go out and start sailing I would suggest studying the front part of your almanac, there's normally a lot of useful info about buoyage, obtaining weather reports, and tidal streams. On the east coast, a few of the rivers are a little tricky to enter and there is lot of useful info on websites like the East Coast Pilot.

Some useful websites:-
http://www.eastcoastpilot.com
http://www.rya.org.uk
 
Stork_III said:
Check your License. It says The ship's Radio License, any variation authorisation and a valid operator's License should be on board at all times, where practicable. But I think should be on board whenever you are using the craft.
Click to expand...
I couldn't check it because it was on my boat! We used to have to display a disc with the radio license, but I haven't given it much attention because nobody ever checks it. I've had my license checked in Germany, but has it ever happened to anyone in the UK?
 
alant said:
The OP is Brazilian, so not an EU citizen, so may perhaps be more complicated if travelling to Europe by yacht, or even returning into UK with non EU passport.
Click to expand...

Hi Alan, in fact I am German ;) but i lived a few years in Brazil while working for the company and now in UK.
 
Andy61 said:
Incredible. The dumbing down of education in the UK. Every single poster on this thread seems unable to spell the noun "licence".
Click to expand...

Hehe, I stand corrected. Noun --> licence , verb --> license. thanks! I should always use the opportunity to improve my 3rd or 4th language :)
I will accept one mark down for the mistake, but I am wondering how many marks one would lose to miss the subject of the topic/post/essay :D
 
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