New furling system for small cruiser

[steve yates]

My bradwell 18 needs new standing rigging, and I’m thinking now is the time to replace its aging plastimo 406, the furling line is a bit thin for good control of the 130% genny, and is prone to jamming by coming off the drum and catching under the bolts that extend from the bottom of the drum. In addition I’ve had halyard wrap issues which actually knackered the forestay in the end. 18ft is the top end of the range the 406 system is designed for, so I was going to go up to the 609, for boats 18-27 ft.

However I’m intrigued by the profurl C260 system, does anyone have any experience of this, or anyreallofe comparisons of the two?

Edited to add, I’ve also seen the ronstan series 60 continous furler system which looks very interesting as well, anyone used this?

Thanks.

 

[Stemar]

I had a 406 on my Snapdragon 24. I don't know how old it was when I got the boat, but it lasted me a good 10 years until the bearings seized and damaged the drum. I don't know the Profurl system, but have used a continuous line furler and, maybe it was the setup, with the line too short, but I didn't like it because I couldn't get a good armful of line to pull in.

 

[steve yates]

Could you reef the gennyok with your continuous line furler or was it just basically out or in?

 

[Groucho]

I will be interested to see what the other replies to this are, as I am also looking at new furlers, though in my case the boat is a little bigger at 28'. A rigger I spoke to warned me off the Plastimo ones which he said did not last, and I know a couple of people who have not had a good experience with the latest Harken ones (the furling line seems to chafe on the housing among other things). The rigger recommended the profurl one or Furlex, though he was a bit sceptical of the sealed bearings on the latter - apparently you cannot rely on them to stay 100% sealed. Haven't come across Ronstan, I'm afraid.

 

[Stemar]

It wasn't my boat, but IIRC, we could reef the genoa. It was a good idea in that it meant one less lump of rope getting in the way in the cockpit, but I found I couldn't pull it in as easily as a "proper" furler because it was harder to grab and get my weight behind pulling it in.

As for Plastimerde, as they call it in France, on my Snapdragon 24, I replaced the 406 that died after a good many years of service with the 609, which is the right size for the boat. On Jazzcat, my rigger (Jerry The Rigger, just before he retired) suggested that I fit the same one as it would be cheaper than the necessary new bearings and some other bits for the (Furlex?) that was fitted.

 

[lustyd]

I put a Furlex 50s on my old Vivacity and would highly recommend them. The bearings can be greased without disassembly which is a huge advantage over other units

 

[vyv_cox]

My Facnor is 20 years old, still good. I replaced the top swivel that failed but the current version is a far better design.

 

[Refueler]

My Plastimo 608 is possibly nearly as old as the boat ... mid 70's .... it works .... boat Sunrider 25.

The only factor that had to be sorted was halyard wrap ... the sails cut for the boat by previous owner - genny was a too short on luff, but a touch long on foot. The halyard could not be stopped from wrapping - even with the 'doughnut' ... so the extreme alternative (used to be suggested by Plastimo) was an extra line via small block .... which goes of to mast at decent angle. The other method of diverting the halyard via a fixed eye was not used avoiding chafe to halyard.

Having had an argument with an overhead power line ... which meant removing top 15" of foil - when I decided to change genny to a shorter foot - I no longer had option to increase luff length to sort that halyard angle.

To OP ... the 406 is not suitable for an 18ft'r ??? It may be at top end of the designed range - but it should be fine. I would be inclined to service the installed 406 ... find out why halyard wrap - most common reason is the angle of halyard to the foil - usually due to genny being too short on luff. halyard then needs to be diverted to create the angle. After years of use - the foil can bind on the stay due to the plastic insert worn.

Years ago - I had a Profurl system on my Snapdragon 23 for a while ... nice system ... the furling line was also the hoist for the sail. The original halyard was not used. Basically the line attached to head of sail - ran up inside the foil groove to a small pulley wheel at top of foil - back down the second groove and exited at the drum. Line was then used to hoist sail - then clamped at drum to fix sail. Rest of line was then wound the number of turns onto the drum .. before leading aft to cockpit.

 

[Aeolus]

Have a look at the Alado - simpler and likely cheaper than pretty much any other system. It ships from Brazil but I have found the company to be very efficient and very supportive. I needed some parts (due to my mistake) and they dispatched them very quickly.

 

[srm]

Have a look at the Sailspar continuous line reefing gear. It comes in various sizes, I first put one on a 32ft Prout cat, then two on my last boat, an 8 ton displacement cutter. Simple to use with a nice sized furling line to hold on to, though I use a winch when reefing the cutter's headsail. The kit came with everything I needed and detailed instructions. Also, very nice people to deal with. They supplied all the standing rigging for my cutter.
Have sailed quite a few thousand miles with them, including some serious wind in the Norwegian Sea and open Atlantic without any problems.

 

[PetiteFleur]

I also had a Sailspar furler on my previous Jaguar 27. I also fitted a Rutgerson clutch so you just hauled in - much easier than trying to get the rope round a cleat. Rutgerson because you could dismantle it to insert the endless reefing line.(other brands are now available). Worked for me.

 

[steve yates]

I was impressed by the sailspar stuff looking at it, and by the speed of response from Penny & David, sadly the quote is almost £1k, which is way too much in terms of budget for this. I can get a new plastimo 460 for £330 or the profurl, for £460. So currently I’m leaning towards either refurbish the existing plastimo or replace with the profurl, which is probably what I really want to do, but she’s also getting a new outboard and I don't want to spoil her

 

[Refueler]

Re-reading opening post a number of times .... I can only think :

1. Why does the line jam on the bolts ?? Is there not a 'feeder / guide' block for the line ?
2. Halyard wrap - if that's not solved - no matter what refurbish or replacement is done - problems of stay will re-appear.

It would be sad if stays are replaced and then wrap happens again .. surely a good investigation into the faults and how to solve before paying out for any replacements ....

A 406 system is pretty simple and time spent dismantling / checking could be all that's needed ...

First thing I would do ? On a quiet day - hoist the jib ... step back far enough that a photo can be taken of the top section of the hoist ... showing angle of halyard / length of foil above sail head / distance to mast head etc. - similar to the photo I put of my setup.

My 38ft'r ... Alex and I had trouble on her with halyard wrap ... binoculars and viewing from various angles soon had us finding the solution ... a short length of strop to raise the sail head ... the increase the halyard to stay angle. We added the strop at the tack so we could adjust till we had the length correct. That length will then be transferred to webbing strop and used at sail head to raise the furling top ..... see attached. It is for my Furlex system - but it applies to all systems of similar setup ... such as the 406.

 

[Nigel_Ward]

I fitted a profurl c260 to my Dehler 22 a number of years ago.
It looks better quality than the equivalent Plastimo, but I have never really had problems with Plastimo and spares are readily available for Plastimo.
The smallest Profurl has a very small diameter hole down the tubes so the forestay swage may need doing after passing the wire through.
The halyard and furling line are one continuous length so you have a very long line. It is important to tension the halyard well before wrapping the furling part.

 

[steve yates]

Have a look at the Alado - simpler and likely cheaper than pretty much any other system. It ships from Brazil but I have found the company to be very efficient and very supportive. I needed some parts (due to my mistake) and they dispatched them very quickly.

Double the price of the plastimo and 50% again on the profurl, I did check.

 

[fjcruiserdxb]

My bradwell 18 needs new standing rigging, and I’m thinking now is the time to replace its aging plastimo 406, the furling line is a bit thin for good control of the 130% genny, and is prone to jamming by coming off the drum and catching under the bolts that extend from the bottom of the drum. In addition I’ve had halyard wrap issues which actually knackered the forestay in the end. 18ft is the top end of the range the 406 system is designed for, so I was going to go up to the 609, for boats 18-27 ft.

However I’m intrigued by the profurl C260 system, does anyone have any experience of this, or anyreallofe comparisons of the two?

Edited to add, I’ve also seen the ronstan series 60 continous furler system which looks very interesting as well, anyone used this?

Thanks.

Just on a continuous furler. Installed one on my Archambault Surprise 25ft. Saved on jamming furling lines as well as having to put new ones on a regular basis to minimise friction. Made sense when racing as need to furl the jib whilst using the spinnaker. Would recommend.
Adding following comment: this option became available on my boat later on by the manufacturer so I used their recommended furler. As for the line, it was dyneema with splice.

 

[srm]

Just on a continuous furler. Installed one on my Archambault Surprise 25ft. Saved on jamming furling lines as well as having to put new ones on a regular basis to minimise friction. Made sense when racing as need to furl the jib whilst using the spinnaker. Would recommend.

Having sailed on a number of boats with single line headsail furling/reefing I do not like having to manage fathoms of thin cord with high loads, especially in moderate to fresh conditions. Such systems are no doubt satisfactory for day sailing marina hoppers but even then all that line is a disaster waiting to happen should it get loose or be allowed to tangle.
The Sailspar single line reefing systems I fitted to two of my boats were a bit more expensive than budget models, being around mid price range. They were well worth the extra cost for ease of use with comfortable reefing lines, no long tails to go over the side or tangle on a wet windy night, and simple reliability. When re-rigging the second boat I did not look at other brands, just fitted what I knew had worked so well.

 

[Rappey]

Some of the furlex systems are described as bomb proof. The bearings on the ones ive messed with are loose and very cheap to buy new ones. A system thats very easy to service.
Plastimo had a habit of mixing stainless and aluminium so it was guaranteed to fail around 5 years. I replaced the ally parts with stainless and have got 30 years out of mine so far.

 

[Refueler]

Some of the furlex systems are described as bomb proof. The bearings on the ones ive messed with are loose and very cheap to buy new ones. A system thats very easy to service.
Plastimo had a habit of mixing stainless and aluminium so it was guaranteed to fail around 5 years. I replaced the ally parts with stainless and have got 30 years out of mine so far.

The top halyard slider on my Furlex 2000 is falling apart on the 38 .... I'll need to investigate sorting that out. Basically the bottom ring is loose .. looking at the gear - it does not look old at all .. boat is mid 80's.

My Plastimo 608 keeps on working - boat is mid 70's ... no idea when it was installed - but I've had the boat over 20yrs ..

 

[steve yates]

Having sailed on a number of boats with single line headsail furling/reefing I do not like having to manage fathoms of thin cord with high loads, especially in moderate to fresh conditions. Such systems are no doubt satisfactory for day sailing marina hoppers but even then all that line is a disaster waiting to happen should it get loose or be allowed to tangle.
The Sailspar single line reefing systems I fitted to two of my boats were a bit more expensive than budget models, being around mid price range. They were well worth the extra cost for ease of use with comfortable reefing lines, no long tails to go over the side or tangle on a wet windy night, and simple reliability. When re-rigging the second boat I did not look at other brands, just fitted what I knew had worked so well.

Yes, I would put a sailspar on in a heartbeat having looked at my options, if I had the budget, which I do not. ( entire standing and running rigging replacement for under £1k.) The profurl is looking pretty promising as a a consolation prize.