New engines for Channel Islands 22?

J

John.l

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Afternoon all,

I am trying to decide whether it would be worth putting new engines in my old Channel Islands 22 and was wondering if anyone here has done it? She currently has two old and tired 45hp diesels with 2300+ hours.

Any suggestions about what would be good replacements and ball park prices?

Best regards,

John
 
My 2300hrs Diesels are far from tired!?

Why not spend a little giving them a good old makeover?

My basic maths says a Diesel engine (Perkins 4107/BMC's by the sound of it) probably came from a small Commercial such as a Morris or Bedford Van. Average speed probably 30mph, therefore 2300 X 30 is 69000 miles. Should be good for another couple of thousand before the actual engines are 'tired' (Old Diesels wouldn't do the 300k miles modern Commercials might)

A few injectors and bits would probably cost £1000 along with a good quality flush, service and 'seeing to'

Am I wrong!? :ambivalence:
 
Depends why you are wanting to replace them. We changed the single lump in our CI32 partly for reliability, partly to avoid having to deal with some oil leaks but primarily to reduce noise. Newer common rail diesels are so much quieter and at low speeds also very economical.

PS. Clearly economics never came into the equation or we would not have done it!
 
Ball park prices for 45hp engines with gearboxes £7k each. Chances are if the engines are near their sell by date the rest of the propulsion related gear (controls, exhausts, stern gear) might also need replacing, so with installation costs you could easily add 50% to that - so £20k.

There is plenty of choice of new engines, as well as ways of revitalising what you have and ways of reducing cost, for example by DIY if you are able. So best to talk to some specialists to see what they offer.
 
John.l said:
Afternoon all,

I am trying to decide whether it would be worth putting new engines in my old Channel Islands 22 and was wondering if anyone here has done it? She currently has two old and tired 45hp diesels with 2300+ hours.

Any suggestions about what would be good replacements and ball park prices?

Best regards,

John
Click to expand...
Quick question, then I will advise further, do you have Volvo's or BMW'S , I know these boats
 
No Regrets said:
My 2300hrs Diesels are far from tired!?

Why not spend a little giving them a good old makeover?

My basic maths says a Diesel engine (Perkins 4107/BMC's by the sound of it) probably came from a small Commercial such as a Morris or Bedford Van. Average speed probably 30mph, therefore 2300 X 30 is 69000 miles. Should be good for another couple of thousand before the actual engines are 'tired' (Old Diesels wouldn't do the 300k miles modern Commercials might)
Click to expand...

My BMC 2.2 is showing 3200 hrs and runs fine. Obviously I have no knowledge of its history before I recently purchased but no smoke and idles very smooth. Just makes 8 kt at WOT which isn't bad for a 32ft steel boat. Talk about economical 4 hours running and the fuel gauge hasn't moved off 3/4
so far
 
Thank you for all the replies, much appreciated. They are BMWs. Thinking of changing them rather than a big overhaul, if it is a viable option, in order to gain more reliability and to reduce the noise... the wife complains. Plan to keep the boat long term as it is just what we need.
 
If the boat suits your needs, (and a ci22 is a fine boat) then getting those old BMW units out and some more modern machinery in sounds a great idea, as for what exactly to go for I'm not sure at that size and hp, but my choice would always be to go for as simple machinery as possible. Hi tech electrics and salt always end up with the same result.

And remember those old tired units you remove have value! Sell them wisely and you could recoup some costs
 
Chris_d said:
The old BMW's are fixable and you can even pick new ones, see here http://www.bmwmarine.org/
Click to expand...

The 'Old' BMW's had a rather chequered career in the Marine World, much has been Posted on here previously
The CI 22 had single and twin variants, the largest was the single Ford Mermaid 140 turbo, which could reach 19 kts plus
The twins were either Volvo or the BMW'S of around 45 HP each
Typically giving, when new a Max of approx. 14s, kts but typically giving a cruising speed of roughly 10 kts
Yes, there is a supplier of parts for the BM's you have but not the one Chris-d mentioned earlier, I don't think but I may be wrong
The Name of the supplier escapes me at the Mo but it Will come back to me in a mo!
My first thought is to have your current motors sorted.
The smaller BM's around in the day did not have the same 'dodgy rep' that the larger ones did, they were Italian built 'VM' units that were badged 'BMW', Personally I would 'refurbe' the BMW's. I have to ask however
Why do you describe them as 'Tired'?
 
As has been mentioned I would stick with basic mechanical fuel pump type engines, not electronic common rail stuff they have now. Spend a bit on an servicing the injectors if needs be, and perhaps a bit extra insulation. 2300 hours is nothing for a diesel.
 
Once again, many thanks for the replies and suggestions. Tired was probably not the best description, I just meant they are getting on a bit. My wife would prefer a quieter set up but, having thought about it, I suppose it would be easier to change the boat rather than re-engine what we have. So, a good service and possibly some more insulation to help reduce the noise may be the best short-term solution.
 
John.l said:
Once again, many thanks for the replies and suggestions. Tired was probably not the best description, I just meant they are getting on a bit. My wife would prefer a quieter set up but, having thought about it, I suppose it would be easier to change the boat rather than re-engine what we have. So, a good service and possibly some more insulation to help reduce the noise may be the best short-term solution.
Click to expand...

John,

I had to bite my tongue when the old engine dinosaurs from PBO started chipping in.

Depends how much the vessel suits your needs, Channel Islands 22 fits the bill for many owners in the West Country and a hard act to follow.

Forget all the daft comments about barely run in, takes no account of 'marine aging' which is nothing to do with base motor durability. However in your case the BMW base engine was a rather nasty old Hatz industrial motor originally designed to be air cooled, modified to be direct cooled but later versions had indirect cooling with heat exchanger.

BMW cast alloy exhaust manifold came from Italy and has been NLA for years.

Although motor has a Lanchester shaft still a bit of an old thumper. There is very little you can do to change the character of the engine.

Back in the 1970's the Japanese started to teach us how to design sweet running and durable little motors, better than anything we could get our heads around in Europe however the BMC 1.5/Perkins 4/99/107/108 die hard's still view the World though rose colored specs.

If the CI 22 really ticks the boxes for you it may well be worth thinking about a pair of Kubotas or Yanmars and although I hate to say it a pair the Chinese clones of Jap motors are 3,000 times better than this old junk.

The fact that posters are making negative comment about common rail engine in this power node is typical of their undatabased prejudice, there is only one common rail motor in this power band and it is an absolute gem.

Without common rail diesel engines our supermarket shelves would be empty, no bus services and no parcels or mail delivered..
 
Latestarter1 said:
John,

I had to bite my tongue when the old engine dinosaurs from PBO started chipping in.

Depends how much the vessel suits your needs, Channel Islands 22 fits the bill for many owners in the West Country and a hard act to follow.

Forget all the daft comments about barely run in, takes no account of 'marine aging' which is nothing to do with base motor durability. However in your case the BMW base engine was a rather nasty old Hatz industrial motor originally designed to be air cooled, modified to be direct cooled but later versions had indirect cooling with heat exchanger.

BMW cast alloy exhaust manifold came from Italy and has been NLA for years.

Although motor has a Lanchester shaft still a bit of an old thumper. There is very little you can do to change the character of the engine.

Back in the 1970's the Japanese started to teach us how to design sweet running and durable little motors, better than anything we could get our heads around in Europe however the BMC 1.5/Perkins 4/99/107/108 die hard's still view the World though rose colored specs.

If the CI 22 really ticks the boxes for you it may well be worth thinking about a pair of Kubotas or Yanmars and although I hate to say it a pair the Chinese clones of Jap motors are 3,000 times better than this old junk.

The fact that posters are making negative comment about common rail engine in this power node is typical of their undatabased prejudice, there is only one common rail motor in this power band and it is an absolute gem.

Without common rail diesel engines our supermarket shelves would be empty, no bus services and no parcels or mail delivered..
Click to expand...

YES !! finally someone who speaks the truth about old smelly engines in old expensive boats :p
 
I hope this thread keeps going , I can only comment on the green motors .
I remember a hatz engine in a vibrating roller I once borrowed , shook my teeth out just about !!
Keep us posted on your choice and who wins the job . Had your boat been Solent based I'd have been keen to look.
 
No doubt a modern engine will give the Channel Island 22 another chance in life
Some, who may not know. These little gems have not been produced for many a long year
Therefore not so valuable in monetary terms
'Prices'? circa 5 to 25 k, so 'cheap' in the boaty world for a very capable 22ft boat
So the 'Dilemma' put new engines in? at what cost?
Mend those insitue?
OK, I hear the shout' They are old, the current units'
'Ageing' and usage is the Peramature we are advised
I have just talked to the New owner of my old CI 22
Second since I sold Her in 2001
The Man I sold Her to did about 15 hours most in Her and left Her to rot
The current owner has cleaned her up nicely
However suffered a gearbox oil seal failure, of which I replaced in 1991, but She 'stood' fer a while after that
However the engine is still firing away properly, albeit noisy and She makes 19kts s, as per the original maker's claims and due to me sorting her out in 1998
So
It is not financially worth it imho to re engine a Circa 15 k vessel with a modern unit/units , just to keep noise levels down, Jeeps what would that cost?, I think it is better to 'SHOUT' and or by those ear thingies that block sound out. Or buy a Seaward of similar dimensions for about twice the money used, maybe?
 
We do about 70 hours a year in a boat nearing 50 years old. We repowered last year replacing the originals with some much more modern albeit not brand spanking new engines.

It has trasformed the boat. Quieter. A little more economic. Vastly less smelly. Not worth it financially but worth every penny.
 
burgundyben said:
Not worth it financially but worth every penny.
Click to expand...
You know and I know burgundyben, there is nothing but nothing, 'worth it financially' ref boating, it aint what it is all about
Putting , lets say 15k of new motors in a 10k's worth of boat is crazy
However, if it gives an undeniable amount of pleasure and usage to said 'Skipper' of said Pleasure Cruiser
So Be It and Job Well Done
We, as Mobo owners, all of Us. We would be probably financially better off if we took up another hobby/'sport' but we would be sad beggars too
. like the Golf Club members who bitch over their Club fees (sad gits)
To the OP- Just stick with yer CI 22
Proper boat, ok makes a bit of noise but is a 'tradeoff' for the litle Hulls, which are superb' by the way, compared to yer 22ft 'bowrider/binliner, type thing, which peeps get excited buy
On their first visit to this Lark!:)
 
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