New engine - any hidden costs?

[RO'D]

I am in a dilemma.
My newly acquired boat has a duff engine (cracked cylinder head on an VP 2003).
Before I go spending good money after bad I am interested to hear any forumites observations.


As I see it I have 3 choices:

1. Replace cracked cylinder and hope that all is well with engine following that...not very confident of this tbh

2. Replace entire engine with a reconditioned version (doesn't address any possible problems with saildrive - already some galvanic action and a possible issue with prop??)

3. Bite the bullet and buy a new engine

I have read a lot of the posts on here relating to this topic and am leaning towards replacement now and be done with it.
especially considering that we are hoping to keep the boat for many years yet.
So if we were to replace the engine - what else might cost me money at the same time i.e. control panel, starting controls etc etc?
I have been told by a volvo dealer who has offered me a D1-30 S that fitting wise the controls from the old unit go straight on, the beds need re drilled but this is normally very simple and the width is the same also.
Basically what is the complete package that comes with the replacement engine (I have also directed this question to the dealer)
And are there any other engine makes I should consider?
Thanks

 

[Storyline]

Really can't give a detailed answer but make sure you get a fixed quote. I got totally shafted when we re-engined our previous boat.if you are in N Wales pm me and I can tell you where definitely not to go !

 

[Aeolus]

When I replaced my engine 2 years ago, the extras included:

Prop shaft
Cutless bearing
Propellor (old Volvo left handed, new Beta right handed)
Repair work to the beds
New control panel
New exhaust
New raw water thru-hull & seacock
New automatic extinguisher (discovered that the old one was empty!)
New secondary oil & water filters
New spare filters, belt, impeller

Well worth the peace of mind of a new, reliable engine. My old Volvo was failing one part at a time, usually at really inconvenient times.

 

[Tranona]

The D1 30 is the only sensible replacement. The engine is only 8 years into its production cycle so will be in production for many years to come. As you have already discovered minimal modifications to fit. Latest saildrive has bigger 2 piece anode for easier replacement and longer life.

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

I'm re engining at present and the expected extras list is as follows:

its a shaft drive not a saildrive an dlots are routine maintenance tasks you want to do while boat is out and you have the access

- changing seacock
- cleaning fuel tank - its in the keel under the engine
- new prop - engine spins the other way and old one didn't match engine ideally
- new exhaust trap - levels meant it was two marginal not to fit an interceptor local to the engine bay
- new controls - old two lever system wouldn't work with new engine
- fibreglass mods to engine mounts to realign new engine
- repack stern gland
- new exhaust hose - old was one size too big and past its best
- repaint engine bay

saildrive probably wouldn't generate most of the list but it makes the point that if you're going in there you tend to do a job of it while you're there so its never as cheap as you think it will be

fortunately most were identified up front and I was warned to make provision for the rest so not unexpected but none of the ancillaries come with the new engine

 

[Pye_End]

And are there any other engine makes I should consider?

Whist you can get to that area, you may decide to do things that are otherwise awkward. For example replace an old mild steel fuel tank; refurbish noise barrier; replace anode stud; replace any old dodgy sea-cocks that are otherwise awkward; paint the bilges. Anything else hidden away on there somewhere?

 

[RO'D]

Really can't give a detailed answer but make sure you get a fixed quote. I got totally shafted when we re-engined our previous boat.if you are in N Wales pm me and I can tell you where definitely not to go !

Yes am considering going that road with local guy and tieing down what exactly he is and isn't doing.
Not in Wales I'm afraid - across the water from you

 

[Storyline]

Yes am considering going that road with local guy and tieing down what exactly he is and isn't doing.
Not in Wales I'm afraid - across the water from you

pm sent

 

[vyv_cox]

It is possible to weld repair cracked cast iron cylinder heads. It is a highly specialised process requiring the job to be done hot, at over 800C. I have had such a repair done on an automotive engine, quite successfully. The cost made it worthwhile.

Google 'cylinder head weld repair'. I did and found this one http://www.fraserbrowneng.co.uk/index.php?c=welding

 

[PetiteFleur]

When I re-engined from a BMC 1.5 to a Beta, I had to do the following, bear in mind this was a shaft drive. New prop & shaft, new no-leak shaft seal, extra tall exhaust manifold, new exhaust hose, new water trap, new muffler, new gooseneck on transom, repositioned exhaust outlet from underwater to transom(to see water exhausting, syphon break, new instrument panel back plate, new soundproofing, raised engine bearers(Beta will make bearers to suit your engine bearers - height & width - most other manufacturers don't do this), new battery leads, new plastic fuel tank, repositioned fuel filter, new raised inlet water filter(above water line), new hoses to calorifier - thats all I can remember at the moment. Some was because the exhaust diameter was a different diameter to the original and different engine rotation. From what you say it might be better to stick to Volvo but get a price from Beta as comparison as they were very helpful and competitive. Go to the boat show in Jan and quiz all the manufacturers. I did the installation myself and just had to get it inspected by the local agent to get warranty and only had to alter one item to keep him happy.

 

[RO'D]

New engine - any hidden costs?

Thanks folks

We had already started on a lot of these jobs like cleaning out fuel tank and replacing lines, clean and paint bilges, new filters etc etc
So I'm not too put off by these.
And as its a saildrive we won't have the stern gland packing jobs.

New control lever I hadn't thought of but it would be a good opportunity to mount it on the binnacle.
Control panel I'll have to check out the cost of, I would have thought the control panel comes with the engine?

It looks like the D1-30 comes with a fixed prop - any idea how much to change this to a folding prop?

 

[robmcg]

I think your decision should be based around how long you intend to keep the boat for and what you want to do with it. The rationale is that if you intend to keep the boat for say the 10 years or so then re engining with a new unit becomes a more attractive proposition as you will enjoy a lot of the 'benefit'. If you intend cruising further afield, the same could also apply. It will be a significant outlay - little change out of 7-8k. A recon Volvo 2030 will come in under 3k, good 2003 sub 2k but these are obviously not new engines. You could apply some lateral thinking and perhaps bring the cost of a new engine down a bit but these suggestions tend to bring negative comments from some forumites which may or may not be justified eg Volvo D1-30 is a Perkins base and is marinised by others at a more competitive price (after all, it isn't usually the marinising bits that give up). In your case, the limiting factor will be the sail drive unit which you may or may not choose to reuse. The ultimate choice will be yours. Good luck.

 

[prv]

The mechanical controls (gear and throttle) may go straight on, but the D1-30 will have a completely different electrics panel. In fact it's not really a panel at all, but a matchbox-sized unit with four buttons on and a separate rev counter (which is essential because it's also the warning alarm for overheats etc).

Pete

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

although you won't get the full value back when you sell it is always easier to sell a re-engined boat and in theory it is worth more than a boat that hasn't been. If you spend signifcant sums on repair you are only making good to a usable condition rather than adding value.

how much will the engine repair cost?

you could argue that a new engine on an old sail drive is still re-engining in a sale as long as you can justify the condition of the sail drive."An old engine is still an old engine" is what swung me in the end. Also i decided i was keeping it for a good few years more so part of it was to my own benefit.

Snooks went through lots of pain with an old engine then gave up and replaced it in the end anyway. Read his blog

 

[pvb]

I am in a dilemma.
My newly acquired boat has a duff engine (cracked cylinder head on an VP 2003).
Before I go spending good money after bad I am interested to hear any forumites observations.

From reading another thread, it seems you've been offered a cylinder head. Swapping the heads isn't too hard, and is a DIY job. The 2003 is basically a sound engine, and is good for many thousands of hours. Replacing it with a new engine will cost you many thousands of pounds, even if you do much of the work yourself, and won't increase your boat's value by anywhere near the same amount. If you're handy at DIY, I'd suggest swapping the head and seeing how things go. If you're not handy at DIY, pay someone to put a new engine in and keep the boat long enough to get some of the value out of the expense.

 

[Woodlouse]

Hidden costs might be that you have to use a specific grade of synthetic oil that only they supply at £50 a throw else you void your warranty.

 

[RO'D]

Decisions decisions
On the one hand:
Yes I have been offered a replacement head but it will still cost me best part of 1k by the time I purchase and ship it plus recondition it.
If this was going to be my entire outlay then I would probably go with it but that's the catch, no guarantees that something else won't come along after this...and that's the catch really
I accept that I will never recoup the value of the new engine, but it would help me to sell the boat if I was so inclined.
As you may have guessed I'm not handy at DIY!

 

[Leighb]

I was faced with a similar choice a few years back, although the engine was probably older (1980 MD7). I was told it could be stripped and overhauled and that would probably sort out the problems of poor starting and smoking, but I would still have a 30 year old engine and there were other things that might go wrong without warning, possibly due to corrosion.

This is what made me decide to re-engine. The Beta has been brilliant and in my mind worth the money.

 

[Tranona]

Thanks folks

We had already started on a lot of these jobs like cleaning out fuel tank and replacing lines, clean and paint bilges, new filters etc etc
So I'm not too put off by these.
And as its a saildrive we won't have the stern gland packing jobs.

New control lever I hadn't thought of but it would be a good opportunity to mount it on the binnacle.
Control panel I'll have to check out the cost of, I would have thought the control panel comes with the engine?

It looks like the D1-30 comes with a fixed prop - any idea how much to change this to a folding prop?

You may well find your current prop will be OK on the new drive. However pretty sure you can order the new one without the fixed prop, that was my experience a couple of years ago. A fixed prop is around £300 and a good folder such as a Flexofold is around £800. Avoid the Volvo folders as they have an appetite for anodes. If correctly sized the performance of a Flexofold is the same as a fixed under power and obviously lower drag when sailing.

 

[ghostlymoron]

If you do decide to replace the engine. You should take the opportunity to review the layout to ensure all the ancillaries are easily accessible for maintenance. Maybe also renew the sound proofing which is much easier without the engine in place.