New Chartplotter mfd

[[2574]]

Get a Raymarine E85001 Seatalk to NMEA 1083 converter on Ebay., or a Quark QK-A031 NMEA 0183 Multiplexer with SeaTalk Converter. Then you can upgrade in stages.

Edit: if you need to go to NMEA 2000, add an Actisense NGW-1 to the mix.

Sounds interesting - but will a multiplexer handle functionality such as (say a B&G) MFD sending NMEA steering commands to a Raymarine autopilot? PVB mentioned that basic data is okay via NMEA but more advanved stuff is handled by proprietary protocols which suggests that it wouldn't work?

 

[dolabriform]

Sounds interesting - but will a multiplexer handle functionality such as (say a B&G) MFD sending NMEA steering commands to a Raymarine autopilot? PVB mentioned that basic data is okay via NMEA but more advanved stuff is handled by proprietary protocols which suggests that it wouldn't work?

A B&G MFD won't send steering commands or even see a raymarine autopilot on Seatalk. You will need a Pilot head that can talk to the autopilot using seatalk.

Information such as distance and bearing to waypoint will get translated from the B&G to the autopilot, so it will steer to a waypoint.

Wind information will get translated between the networks, as will speed, depth etc. It depends on what messages the E85001 and NGW-1 can translate, but also what messages exist to carry data.

 

[[2574]]

You will need a Pilot head that can talk to the autopilot using seatalk.

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my meaning, I meant will it talk to the pilot head and therefore steer via the autopilot. Very helpful, thanks.

 

[mrangry]

I bought a Beneteau 44 footer in August and it had nothing more than Raymarine ST40 depth and log with an old Simrad wheel pilot. I spent hours searching forums and online suppliers and decided to go with B&G. Due to the cost of fitting out from pretty much scratch I am doing bits at a time.

I bought a B&G Vulcan MFD and a wireless wind, speed and depth pack. So far I am very impressed with the screen but not so with the wireless masthead unit as having issues pairing. That said, the support provided by Navico (B&G) so far has been good. My next purchase will be the autopilot system but that itself is expensive at nearly 3k.

As said before you really only have the three main players to choose from and really just have to decide on which one and run with that. As for integrating autopilots from differing manufacturers....I have read there are many issues and best avoided, but I am not really experienced or qualified in that field to offer any real direction.

 

[[2574]]

As for integrating autopilots from differing manufacturers....I have read there are many issues and best avoided

That is what I fear. Added to that one is mixing analogue and digital systems (we've ST60s for example) so mixing brands and technologies seems like a nightmare in the making.....

 

[PaulRainbow]

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my meaning, I meant will it talk to the pilot head and therefore steer via the autopilot. Very helpful, thanks.

If you have an autopilot brand X, that works stand alone, you can connect it to the rest of the network and it will steer to a waypoint or wind. Obviously if the AP only talks Seatalk, you have to have something to convert your NMEA 2000 (or NMEA 013) to Seatalk.

What PRV was referring to is the fact that, if you want to be able to engage/disengage the AP from the MFD, the MFD has to be the same brand as the AP and a compatible format.

 

[PaulRainbow]

That is what I fear. Added to that one is mixing analogue and digital systems (we've ST60s for example) so mixing brands and technologies seems like a nightmare in the making.....

Not if you understand what works. I recently installed a Garmin plotter and a Raymarine wheel pilot to a boat with a selection of ST60s. So, that's a Seatalk bus, a Seatalk NG network, with the Garmin plotter being N2K. They all live happily together, the MFD sees wind/depth etc and the AP will steer to a waypoint and wind. The only thing that is missing, that would be there is everything was a single brand, is the ability to engage/disengage the AP.

 

[[2574]]

Not if you understand what works. I recently installed a Garmin plotter and a Raymarine wheel pilot to a boat with a selection of ST60s. So, that's a Seatalk bus, a Seatalk NG network, with the Garmin plotter being N2K. They all live happily together, the MFD sees wind/depth etc and the AP will steer to a waypoint and wind. The only thing that is missing, that would be there is everything was a single brand, is the ability to engage/disengage the AP.

Thanks. Very happy to press the Engage/Disengage button on the AP head unit - helps achieve the 10,000 steps per day! So, looks like there is a realistic opportunity of adding a B&G MFD on an otherwise Raymarine system.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Get a Raymarine E85001 Seatalk to NMEA 1083 converter on Ebay., or a Quark QK-A031 NMEA 0183 Multiplexer with SeaTalk Converter. Then you can upgrade in stages.

Edit: if you need to go to NMEA 2000, add an Actisense NGW-1 to the mix.

Thanks. Very happy to press the Engage/Disengage button on the AP head unit - helps achieve the 10,000 steps per day! So, looks like there is a realistic opportunity of adding a B&G MFD on an otherwise Raymarine system.

Yes, basically (a new thread on here when you're ready will confirm details) leave all of the ST60s etc connected together, fit an ST to STNG converter kit, then use a STNG to N2K cable to connect the B&G MFD to the ST-STNG converter.

 

[jwilson]

I have a B&G Vulcan MFD connected via a Raymarine ST/STNg converter to Raymarine ST60 series instruments and Raymarine ST4000 wheelpilot. The instrument data gets through to the Vulcan MFD but it does not control the autopilot, not that I cared about that in any case.

 

[laika]

There's a few factors to consider if redesigning from scratch and I'm not up to date with the current state of play on all of them. If there's a particular radar or sonar you want, your choice is made for you. Choice of cartography may be a factor: when I bought my plotter 8 years ago one thing that put me off garmin was (iirc) the cost of their large area charts though thing may well have changed (and now, shock horror, raymarine give you a choice). Turning the AP on/off from the plotter is just not something I do so autopilot wouldn't affect my choice. The B&G kit I've played with at boat shows seems to be far more useful on a sailing boat than raymarine kit, but whether that's useful depends on whether the OP has a sailing boat or a motorboat. Ultimately though my needs are pretty basic so I don't really need the B&G stuff. If you're used to one brand maybe minimizing the learning curve with respect not only to the interfaces but also where to get support etc. would be a factor. And obviously cost of spares and how long manufacturers support their kit for.

Raymarine isn't quite nmea2k though as they've rolled their own connectors.

Raymarine's lack of care for standards and interoperability would mean I wouldn't buy it.
It works fine if you're happy to pay top dollar and have everything Raymarine of course.

Disagree for a couple of reasons. Firstly Raymarine seem now to be moving away form STNG: The new MFDs have devicenet connections rather than ST-NG and per various messages above I'm not sure it's true to say that there's significantly more compatibility differences between Raymarine and other brands than there is between different other brands. Secondly ST-NG was a testament to Raymarine's support of their older products. The extra wire which required the extra pin (so non-standard connector) carried st-1. I quite like the connectors too: less awkward to get through small holes than devicenet. The fact that lots of people are still using ST60s and I'm using ST50s which are nearly 30 years old via a converter are, I think, a positive recommendation for raymarine.

I'd still look quite closely at B&G if starting from scratch though...

 

[PaulRainbow]

Disagree for a couple of reasons. Firstly Raymarine seem now to be moving away form STNG: The new MFDs have devicenet connections rather than ST-NG and per various messages above I'm not sure it's true to say that there's significantly more compatibility differences between Raymarine and other brands than there is between different other brands. Secondly ST-NG was a testament to Raymarine's support of their older products. The extra wire which required the extra pin (so non-standard connector) carried st-1. I quite like the connectors too: less awkward to get through small holes than devicenet. The fact that lots of people are still using ST60s and I'm using ST50s which are nearly 30 years old via a converter are, I think, a positive recommendation for raymarine.

Raymarine are muddled with their connectors, as you say, N2K on some new plotters, but still using STNG on other products. Go spend £5K on a new MFD and AP and you need a converter cable.

Compatibility between brands is because the N2 standard has to be followed, so they must speak the same language, but the standard does not cover the connectors, hence we have Devicenet (N2K), STNG and the Navico Simnet connectors.

The connectors are neat, but not as flexible as N2K. Say you need a 2m spur cable, you have 2 1m cables, but they won't join together, you also have a 2m backbone cable, but you cannot use that, it's different. With N2K you could join 2 cables together or use the backbone cable.

That said, product interchangeability is vastly better now than it has ever been.

 

[eddystone]

Any particular reason why?

Don’t like blue charts - if you could use Navionics which can’t be long given Garmin own them, it would be different. Also the routing on my admittedly legacy model is very frustrating compared to Navionics - again it’s possible this has changed on current models

 

[laika]

Raymarine are muddled with their connectors, as you say, N2K on some new plotters, but still using STNG on other products. Go spend £5K on a new MFD and AP and you need a converter cable.

If you get to go to installer/dealer briefings perhaps you'll have a handle on this....

The evolution autopilots have been around for a few years. It's the new MFDs which seem to have swapped stng for devicenet. I had presumed that they were replacing stng on new products as and when released so we're in a transitional (/"muddled" phase now but eventually the whole range would end up devicenet. Is there reason to believe any different , e.g. that there's some other reason for devicenet on plotters only. I doubt that it's just a cynical attempt to flog cables

 

[PaulRainbow]

If you get to go to installer/dealer briefings perhaps you'll have a handle on this....

The evolution autopilots have been around for a few years. It's the new MFDs which seem to have swapped stng for devicenet. I had presumed that they were replacing stng on new products as and when released so we're in a transitional (/"muddled" phase now but eventually the whole range would end up devicenet. Is there reason to believe any different , e.g. that there's some other reason for devicenet on plotters only. I doubt that it's just a cynical attempt to flog cables

I'm not privy to any briefings at Raymarine. I'm not sure what their thinking was with the newer MFDs, but i doubt very much they'll totally abandon STNG.

 

[Daverw]

Easy to buy one of each cable, cut them, solder and heat shrink and you have two adapters, we have mixture of device net and stng and no issues

 

[[163233]]

Proper cunning is it not. Effectively makes migration away from the brand impossible as the migration cost of an entire nav management and control system is very significant.

DEC invented it, it used to be called the connector conspiracy. Eventually everyone got sick of it being overpriced and they collapsed.

I didn't think they made wind instruments.

They do a fairly agricultural looking ultrasound wind instrument.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Have a look at ONWA

I recently bought an ONWA Chartplotter/AIS ; it works but, moisture gets inside and then it is hard to see the screen, also the screen definition/clarity is not very good. Overall, the quality is very disappointing.

 

[masterofnone]

Currently, I have raymarine evo AP, E80 classic, 2kw 18"radar, st40 depth, st40 speed, em trak ais transponder, nasa wireless wind, a stand alone simrad ce and seperate depth transducer at the chart table.
My plan is 12" axiom, quantum radar, new thru hull transducer, nmea 0183 to seatalk to connect ais and wind. I intend to keep the very old internal system because it works (belt and braces).

 

[salar]

Garmin for me, all through. I learned long ago, the hard way, that if you source kit from multiple suppliers that are supposed to talk on a common protocol there will always be a gotcha. I am upgrading from my GPSMap4008 if anyone is interested!