panthablue
New member
I'm raising investment for The Steersman through Seedrs. Check out our startup at http://seedrs.com/startups/the-steersman?promo_code=VJLMW84Q
New boating product investment opportunity
- Thread starter panthablue
- Start date
RobinBirch
Active member
Not again.....
Phoenix of Hamble
Active member
bad form to keep posting the same thing....
ChrisE
Active member
Three kings
New member
Desperate times.........desperate measures
lw395
Well-known member
Model yachts had self-steering gear controlled by the sheets decades ago.
It sounds as if the steersman will have a hard time in gusty winds, if it keeps jib sheet tension constant.
The flaw in the scheme is that cruising yachtsmen use autopilot a lot when motoring.
So most people would still want that.
It sounds as if the steersman will have a hard time in gusty winds, if it keeps jib sheet tension constant.
The flaw in the scheme is that cruising yachtsmen use autopilot a lot when motoring.
So most people would still want that.
nathanlee
New member
You're valuing your business at a million quid? Not a chance.
nathanlee
New member
In fact, looking at the numbers you've put together, I'd suggest you're being way too naive about it as a business. The product actually looks pretty sweet, and I love the concept, but it'd be hard to get me to go for your product than something that's already tried, tested, and proven to work.
You're stating that their are up to 20,000 boats in the UK that are campatible with your product, and hope to get your product on 10% of these within three years. Not an icecube in hells chance of that, I'm afraid.
How many of those 20,000 boats already have self steering? How many already have an electronic autopilot which does the job. How many of those boat owners do the kind of sailing that requires a non-electric auto pilot. How many of those boat owners can afford to buy it. How many want that in their cockpit (it's pretty big and odd looking).
Point is, your market is totally exaggerated. I'd guess there's perhaps 2,000 self steering units sold in the UK each year (that still feels quite optimistic to be honest), and you're going to be in competition with all the other self steering products, so you might get, if your product is good and well priced, 30% of that 2,000 unit market.
600 units a year, and you're valuing your business at a million quid?
I'd look at self funding, and starting small. You're not going to get investment.
Good luck though, and I mean that.
You're stating that their are up to 20,000 boats in the UK that are campatible with your product, and hope to get your product on 10% of these within three years. Not an icecube in hells chance of that, I'm afraid.
How many of those 20,000 boats already have self steering? How many already have an electronic autopilot which does the job. How many of those boat owners do the kind of sailing that requires a non-electric auto pilot. How many of those boat owners can afford to buy it. How many want that in their cockpit (it's pretty big and odd looking).
Point is, your market is totally exaggerated. I'd guess there's perhaps 2,000 self steering units sold in the UK each year (that still feels quite optimistic to be honest), and you're going to be in competition with all the other self steering products, so you might get, if your product is good and well priced, 30% of that 2,000 unit market.
600 units a year, and you're valuing your business at a million quid?
I'd look at self funding, and starting small. You're not going to get investment.
Good luck though, and I mean that.
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FishyInverness
New member
^
Nathanlee, You post just made me recall that there's this programme that appears to be missing an extra presenter...erm...I think it's called lizard's lair or something like that!
Nathanlee, You post just made me recall that there's this programme that appears to be missing an extra presenter...erm...I think it's called lizard's lair or something like that!
panthablue
New member
Hi Nathan
I appreciate your scepticism but I have sailed with the Steersman and I really believe it is better than anything else on the market. I'm convinced that once a few people have it installed on their boat, others will follow their lead.
Also, it is perfectly practical to have both a Tiller Pilot and a Steersman. Use the tiller pilot when under engine, then set the Steersman for a longer voyage to save draining the batteries.
I appreciate your scepticism but I have sailed with the Steersman and I really believe it is better than anything else on the market. I'm convinced that once a few people have it installed on their boat, others will follow their lead.
Also, it is perfectly practical to have both a Tiller Pilot and a Steersman. Use the tiller pilot when under engine, then set the Steersman for a longer voyage to save draining the batteries.
PhillM
Well-known member
I was interested in the product. Watched the videos. Was put of by:
1) Works in all weathers and wind directions - except when there is wind astern, or when there is not enough wind, or too much and so on.
2) Works for motorsailing - but only on a couple of points of sail
3) Works on any boat - but you do need self tailing winches (I dont have them and I don't think that many smaller boats do)
4) The units look ugly- would look so BIG and out of place on my little wooden 25'
5) If I had all that hardware in my cockpit i'd be in danger of triping over it and going over the side.
I did like the idea (cheap / wind powered / self contained) but the reality doesnt add up. Back to dreaming of a wind vane me thinks.
1) Works in all weathers and wind directions - except when there is wind astern, or when there is not enough wind, or too much and so on.
2) Works for motorsailing - but only on a couple of points of sail
3) Works on any boat - but you do need self tailing winches (I dont have them and I don't think that many smaller boats do)
4) The units look ugly- would look so BIG and out of place on my little wooden 25'
5) If I had all that hardware in my cockpit i'd be in danger of triping over it and going over the side.
I did like the idea (cheap / wind powered / self contained) but the reality doesnt add up. Back to dreaming of a wind vane me thinks.
prv
Well-known member
lw395
Well-known member
I think that if steering based on sheet tension became fashionable, a lot of me-too products would emerge. There is a lot of prior art out there.
Also the yachting public do seem to like their electronics.
You are going to have a lot of sales resistance to something that appears to involve a lot of bungee.
I take the point that autopilots are a significant current drain, but I think that could be worked on if it's a priority.
For the business to be worth a million, you must be expecting something like a million pound turnover within not many years? I'm really not able to point at any of my varied sailing acquaintances and say ' I think he would buy one '.
The serious cruising types with money to spend and big voyaging plans want proven stuff like vane gear.
The weekenders want a nice integrated autopilot where the Mrs can just push one button.
Also the yachting public do seem to like their electronics.
You are going to have a lot of sales resistance to something that appears to involve a lot of bungee.
I take the point that autopilots are a significant current drain, but I think that could be worked on if it's a priority.
For the business to be worth a million, you must be expecting something like a million pound turnover within not many years? I'm really not able to point at any of my varied sailing acquaintances and say ' I think he would buy one '.
The serious cruising types with money to spend and big voyaging plans want proven stuff like vane gear.
The weekenders want a nice integrated autopilot where the Mrs can just push one button.
Niander
New member
I dont like it
it looks very complicated
tweekers paradise aparantly...
it looks very complicated
tweekers paradise aparantly...
panthablue
New member
Hi Phil. I appreciate the unit on view is too big for your boat. I have a design for 24ft to 27 ft boats which is smaller and has better styling. I can also be used with simple jamb cleats.
Does this help?
Rob
sighmoon
Active member
Deja vu:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341367
This looks like a more elegant / cheaper / lighter / less invasive solution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQNBlrg0VyI
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341367
This looks like a more elegant / cheaper / lighter / less invasive solution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQNBlrg0VyI
KellysEye
Active member
> then set the Steersman for a longer voyage to save draining the batteries.
And how many boats do long voyages? That's why wind vane sales are quite low, big crewed yachts steer if racing or autopilot if not. Smaller boats use windvanes to save battery power.
Tips, successful start ups target one of two things.
1. They produce a better product/service than all their competitors at a cheaper price That requires considerable research into competitors and you can guarantee the competitors will cut their price so it must be a better product/service. Then look at costs, will it make a profit.
2. They design a new product/service that has no competition. Again it requires considerable research to find if there is a market for the product/service and what price buyers will accept, then look at costs. Will it make a profit.
If a startup doesn't do one of those it will fail.
I agree with Nathan, as a business it will fail. Qualifications for saying that? I bought out one company with two other people and started two, the first was the first Web design company in the UK and the first and now the world's largest late availability yacht charter company. All were successful and have been sold. I also worked on new product development when I worked in the ad industry. Note the two startups were category two, it never easy but esier than category one.
From your proposal you have seem to have done none of the above and just seem to be asking for a large sum of money on no commercial basis and with no research.
And how many boats do long voyages? That's why wind vane sales are quite low, big crewed yachts steer if racing or autopilot if not. Smaller boats use windvanes to save battery power.
Tips, successful start ups target one of two things.
1. They produce a better product/service than all their competitors at a cheaper price That requires considerable research into competitors and you can guarantee the competitors will cut their price so it must be a better product/service. Then look at costs, will it make a profit.
2. They design a new product/service that has no competition. Again it requires considerable research to find if there is a market for the product/service and what price buyers will accept, then look at costs. Will it make a profit.
If a startup doesn't do one of those it will fail.
I agree with Nathan, as a business it will fail. Qualifications for saying that? I bought out one company with two other people and started two, the first was the first Web design company in the UK and the first and now the world's largest late availability yacht charter company. All were successful and have been sold. I also worked on new product development when I worked in the ad industry. Note the two startups were category two, it never easy but esier than category one.
From your proposal you have seem to have done none of the above and just seem to be asking for a large sum of money on no commercial basis and with no research.
panthablue
New member
Hi Pete. OK
Windvane units clutter up the stern of the boat making it difficult to fit boarding ladders, aerials, radar, as well as dinghy davits. They are also vulnerable to damage, particularly when manoeuvring in harbour. Also, if some weed gets caught on the rudder the steering goes awry, and to clear it you may find yourself hanging over the stern poking it with a boathook - not much fun in blow.
Electrical systems - do not follow the wind very well, they have a large number of delicate components, any one of which can cause the unit to fail unexpectedly. They also rely on battery power, and the stronger the wind the more battery power they need. On a small boat this could be serious. The battery should be kept for navigation lights and the radio. They also many of them don't work well in winds above a F6.
I consider self steering gear as an important addition to yacht safety, and for me, The Steersman fits the bill better than any of above.
I hope this helps
Rob
Niander
New member
Please Stop saying "I hope this helps"
Tranona
Well-known member
Don't know what experience you have of the marine market, but your projections are wildly optimistic.
To get sales you need to have a product that is "better" than currently available or does something unique. Not sure your product will do either.
The satisfaction ratings for the two main types of self steering (electronic autopilots and wind vanes) are very high - just look at the feedback from events such as the ARC. Both these solutions have good and bad points, but once you have decided what your priorities are and make your choice both do what they claim. So that is not a vast number of dissatisfied users out there.
Somebody who currently uses an electric tiller pilot is unlikely to consider your product given that it is many times more expensive (than a tiller pilot) and not as versatile. Battery drain is far less of an issue than you seem to think, given the advances in battery technology and particularly charging systems. Those who have windvanes, which cost a similar amount are generally very satisfied and would not want to lose the simplicity and flexibility of their current system (even though they might appreciate losing the bits hanging off the back of the boat).
So, you are left with appealing to those who would buy neither of the current solutions - and that is a very small potential pool of buyers. As Nathan suggested above the sales of self steering units is likely to be in the hundreds each year and not thousands and getting a significant share of this will not be easy with a product that does not do anything better than those already on the market.
Leaving aside the large electronic autopilot manufacturers, most firms making self steering are what one might term cottage industries, reflecting the very small volumes of sales. It may well be that your product can carve a little niche, but it is unlikely to generate the sort of volumes you suggest.