aquatom
Well-Known Member
The Targa 38 is a good boat.
New boat vs second hand
- Thread starter Sonia M
- Start date
Nigelpickin
Well-Known Member
We were parked next to a Bavaria s40 coupe Special Edition while in Lanzarote - it looked very nice. Not sure whether that is a boat on your radar but it has the IPS and a really well thought out interior/exterior - but it ain’t a Sunseeker!
Also seen a few Sessa 38’s around, they look ok but not sure what they review like?
Having gone through 30, 39 and 50’ Sports Cruisers I would probable agree with Whitelighter in that you look at a few FB boats, the extra space and lordability can be nice....
Why not get your better/worse half to accompany you to Düsseldorf next January?
Also seen a few Sessa 38’s around, they look ok but not sure what they review like?
Having gone through 30, 39 and 50’ Sports Cruisers I would probable agree with Whitelighter in that you look at a few FB boats, the extra space and lordability can be nice....
Why not get your better/worse half to accompany you to Düsseldorf next January?
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
As an engineer on this make of required engine I would not recommend a joystick with outdrives .
The reasons are from 2 sides.
1 , I’ve not yet seen the benefit because it simply doesn’t provide the thrust required in the right direction because the props are not in the right place and the drive angle required isn’t enough .
2 , the drives wear out rapidly on the cone clutch , plus you have very expensive steering rams , 4 in total that have electronic drive angle position indicator sending info back to the computer plus the system has a complex pump and valve system . Now we all know these rams leak water into them , when they do it damages the other rams, pump and valves .
You need to factor servicing costs and drive repairs and steering ram failure into your yearly budget .
My personal view is if you want a joystick controlled boat look at IPS not sterndrive option, or buy and get some proper tuition on how to use sterndrives.
Another option for positive sideways movement is to have the builder or dealer fit an upsized bow thruster and a stern thruster, there is also a device called a yacht controller that combines both engines and thrusters together to give the desired boat movement, again your better just to learn to drive it , as it saves on your pocket.
kashurst
Well-Known Member
As a shaft drive enthusiast, I tend to think outdrives and IPS drives are the work of the devil.
However given the numerous potential issues such complex drive systems have, I am beginning to wonder if IPS is actually the lesser evil.
Am I right in thinking that in an IPS drive, the drive clutches, steering motor, etc are in the assembly inside the hull - and out of the water?
edit - just been looking at IPS exploded parts diagrams and prices on marine parts europe website
https://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-cat-47701970.aspx
I'll stick with the shafts, thanks very much
However given the numerous potential issues such complex drive systems have, I am beginning to wonder if IPS is actually the lesser evil.
Am I right in thinking that in an IPS drive, the drive clutches, steering motor, etc are in the assembly inside the hull - and out of the water?
edit - just been looking at IPS exploded parts diagrams and prices on marine parts europe website
https://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-cat-47701970.aspx
I'll stick with the shafts, thanks very much
Last edited:
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
Kevin your thinking like a proper design engineer , sadly whoever designed the IPS wasn’t .
When it came out I looked over it with great interest, then when I looked seriously at it my heart and enthusiasm sank right to the bottom of the sea.
The who,e oil lubrication system is one oil so in effect the pump is sucking oil from the bottom of the sump or gearcase , well not exactly from the bottom but it might as well as once the oil is contaminated when the shaft seals fail.
When oil gets into the water it’s goodnight Vienna as they say , the pump pressure drops , the lubrication ability of the oil fails , the clutches start to slip, the oil burns , then it trashes the clutch plates and various other parts inside the upper unit .
Why oh why they didn’t separate the upper housing from the bottom I do not know , this would have meant the main drive part wouldn’t be subject to bad oil , it could have been monitored, it does have a removable suction filter which when you unscrew it you can then detect how clean the oil is , but the boat has to be taken out the water to drain the oil anyway and then remove the drive unit for overhaul .
I’m not sure about the Zeus system if that’s any better or worse , to overhaul 2 IPS units is upwards of 12k by an independent, dealer prices a lot more .
kashurst
Well-Known Member
so the top section with all the really complex bits in shares its oil with the simple bit in the sea?
that's insane
that's insane
Sonia M
New Member
So for a 35-40ft boat what engines and thrusters etc would you recommend. You are both obviously in the know as design engineer and enthusiast and I am a complete novice ??
Switch
Well-Known Member
Paul,
Just out of interest, and perhaps to get a more balanced view, how many IPS units are you personally aware off that have had that 'goodnight Vienna' moment that required the £12k overhaul.
Sonia M
New Member
We have had a price for the Bavaria s40 HT and it is within budget just haven’t seen it yet in the flesh. We will probably go to the Düsseldorf boat show in January if we haven’t got one before. Have been looking at sessa 38 & looks quite nice. Will see who deals with them in Jersey or UK and get a price. Don’t seem to be any second hand ones about. Thanks ?
aquatom
Well-Known Member
I’ve worked on a large number of IPS powered boats and can say that the early ones had a few clutch issues. I have found that the shaft seals very rarely fail even when there has been rope or fishing line between the props. The only serious problems I’ve seen with IPS drives was one boat this season had the vertical shaft in the upper section shear, but it was easily fixed and another customer who hit a rock and bent the inner shaft and a prop. This damage was fixed and the boat back in use in a few days. A shaft drive boat would have been out of action for weeks!
Just service them every year, use genuine anodes as they are not just zinc and use the correct oil.
Just service them every year, use genuine anodes as they are not just zinc and use the correct oil.
ari
Well-Known Member
I presume you mean drive system. Unfortunately it's not quite as simple as 'which is best?' Like everything to do with boats, there are compromises to be weighed up, and the weighing will depend on your own priorities.
For example, the most simple, cheapest to maintain, drive system is straight shafts. However you want a 35-40ft sportscruiser (judging by your boat suggestions). Put straight shaft drives into one of those and you end up with your engines in your mid cabin. In fact there was a shaft drive 36ft sports cruiser years ago (back in the eighties), the Princess 36 Riviera, but they did it by having a really long cockpit and a relatively (for the size of the boat) small cabin. Great sea boat, but not as popular as the smaller cheaper Fairline Targa 33 of the time that had just as big a cabin (because it was on outdrives). The Princess 346/366 Riviera that replaced it in the early nineties was on outdrives, as were the V39/V40/V42 that followed, right up to today's Princess V40.
You also won't find many sub 40ft sportscruisers on IPS (I can't think of one offhand, I expect someone can). So for the sort of boat you want, you've pretty much got to accept outdrives.
For what it's worth, outdrives/sterndrives (same thing, different name) have been in existence on this type of boat for decades, and they suit this type of boat well (quieter, faster, smoother, sharper handling, more economical than shafts).
They're not a perfect solution, but nothing is, as mentioned, everything is a compromise. But they're generally well proven and reliable IF looked after properly (regular servicing) and you accept that occasionally you're going to get bigger bills for things like power trim rams.
kashurst
Well-Known Member
With the budget you have the Sunseeker or the equivalent Princess.
But with your budget I would personally go a bit bigger and get a Fairline Targa 47 GT. Around the 40' mark, there are also Searay and Cruiser boats (USA) with shafts but they tend to have odd internal layouts, which for Europeans tastes are not popular.
Outdrives have advantages - speed, handling, more economical, but unless you plan to do more than @ 800 miles a year for me having the extra complexity is not worth it. I tend to favour reliability/simplicity/ease of servicing over speed/economy/sporty drive.
However like everything boats are a compromise in many ways - everyone will have their own view. Fortunately these days the majority of boat manufacturers are very good, and at the size/age you are looking, in Europe will almost certainly have Volvo engines with outdrives. I am just a boaty luddite
The downside of looking on this type of forum is people always remember the horror stories. There must be 100,000s of outdrives around the world working fine and probably now 10,000s of IPS drives giving good service.
volvopaul
Well-Known Member
Yes it does