New Boat thread, probably not!

[Deleted User YDKXO]

By chance, have you ever seen in flesh one of their previous powercats, the 43 or 44? Any thoughts?
Of course, views form anyone else are also welcome - after all, that's only very slightly o/t in a thread like this...

Yup we looked over the Lagoon 43/44 at SIBS a few years ago. The most impressive aspect was the vast owners aft cabin which was really impressive even if there wasn't full standing headroom everywhere. I don't understand why more power cat builders didn't copy this feature. In other respects it was much like other power cats ie vast deck spaces but a finish that was more sailing yacht than power boat. Overall a lovely boat and we were quite taken with it

 

[Nigelpickin]

I've never been a cat lover in principle, but I have to agree with that.
By chance, have you ever seen in flesh one of their previous powercats, the 43 or 44? Any thoughts?
Of course, views form anyone else are also welcome - after all, that's only very slightly o/t in a thread like this...

I've seen the 44 close up and have also berthed near to and next to the FP equivalent - I think that lagoon's view at the time they dropped the MY range was that most customers would specify a sail and get the best of both worlds.

The 40 MY seems to be destined to the sail adverse charter market segment and the 630 fine tuned for Asian millionaires....

For us, we want a no nonsense, comfortable, long range cruiser that will accommodate friends while affording us privacy and fit in with a healthy, adventurous lifestyle. We will enjoy learning to sail and see that as a mutually fulfilling hobby that will lead to some big adventures.

We've specified the throttles and rudder control at the lower Nav table in case we find the transition all too much to take - I think that when we come to sell it on, the sails will be in vgc

 

[MapisM]

I've seen the 44 close up and have also berthed near to and next to the FP equivalent

By FP equivalent, you mean the Cumberland, I suppose - or are you talking of the newer FP MY44, which btw looks amazing on paper?
Either ways, I'd be interested in your thoughts/comparisons.

I never considered a cat as my next boat, but for several reasons in the last weeks I began wondering if I should.
Though my interest in the floppy stuff remains even lower than yours - as close to zero as it gets, in fact.
Sometimes I thought that I should fight my laziness, but eventually I never found a good enough reason to fight an old friend...

 

[Nigelpickin]

Yes the Cumberland, not the new one - which does look like a very good proposition as a long range, livable and 'economic' alternative to a 50' monohull.

I don't think that either FP or L are ever going to win prizes for build quality but they do provide a lot of boat for the money. 2nd hand owner versions of these boats seem to sell well, (quickly), which was a consideration for us; should we want to get out at any time.

 

[MapisM]

Yup, all agreed, as far as I can tell so far - with a still rather limited cat experience.
Except the comparison, maybe: spacewise, I would say that a 45' or so cat is rather in the same league as a 55' monohull than a 50', by and large. If not even more...

Incidentally, I'm now onboard my old tub, and no later than this afternoon I came across the thing below, moored in my marina...
Nobody onboard atm, so I couldn't ask to have a closer look.
But when seen from the dock, she's a very nice and proportioned vessel, I must say.
Something that can't be said for many other similar boats! :encouragement:

 

[Magnum]

Congratulations Nigel

 

[Garold]

Yes the Cumberland, not the new one - which does look like a very good proposition as a long range, livable and 'economic' alternative to a 50' monohull.

I don't think that either FP or L are ever going to win prizes for build quality but they do provide a lot of boat for the money. 2nd hand owner versions of these boats seem to sell well, (quickly), which was a consideration for us; should we want to get out at any time.

We've had two Lagoon catamarans (380 & 400) both bought new.

They both sold within three months when we came to sell them and I think that cats are only becoming more popular so I'd hope that you will have a similar experience to us when you are ready to move on. I was fearful that we had gone too niche by buying a cat but it was almost a benefit when we came to sell.

We had the 400 for about 3.5 years and sold her with approx 750 hours on the engines. We had plenty of use out of the boat but I'd say we spent about 70-80% of the time motoring or motor sailing. The engine hours confirm this. Amongst sailing types I was a bit embarrassed to talk about our engine hours but it is probably a reality amongst Lagoon cat owners unless you get offshore and into the trade winds when they sail better than they motor.

As for reducing your annual boat budget, I can see how you would cut down on fuel costs and large engine service bills, but you will be paying increased mooring costs with a cat and lift out can be more expensive because not every yard can lift cats and you are antifouling two hulls. And still two engines to service though smaller ones.

Depending where you are cruising, I miss the shallow water ability and the ability to dry out. With a cat you can access parts of an anchorage that other boats can't get to and if you touch the bottom it doesn't matter. This removes some of the anxiety of exploring shallow anchorages. Also in tidal waters, drying out is handy even just to check the bottom occasionally.

Anyway, congratulations and I'm sure that Graham will look after you (assuming she is coming from Ancasta).

Garold

Ps. Since we had the addition of the Brexit part to the forum, you should now be campaigning for a multihull part to the form. It's long overdue and it's certainly one part of the marine industry which is growing rather than contracting.

 

[Nigelpickin]

We've had two Lagoon catamarans (380 & 400) both bought new.

They both sold within three months when we came to sell them and I think that cats are only becoming more popular so I'd hope that you will have a similar experience to us when you are ready to move on. I was fearful that we had gone too niche by buying a cat but it was almost a benefit when we came to sell.

We had the 400 for about 3.5 years and sold her with approx 750 hours on the engines. We had plenty of use out of the boat but I'd say we spent about 70-80% of the time motoring or motor sailing. The engine hours confirm this. Amongst sailing types I was a bit embarrassed to talk about our engine hours but it is probably a reality amongst Lagoon cat owners unless you get offshore and into the trade winds when they sail better than they motor.

As for reducing your annual boat budget, I can see how you would cut down on fuel costs and large engine service bills, but you will be paying increased mooring costs with a cat and lift out can be more expensive because not every yard can lift cats and you are antifouling two hulls. And still two engines to service though smaller ones.

Depending where you are cruising, I miss the shallow water ability and the ability to dry out. With a cat you can access parts of an anchorage that other boats can't get to and if you touch the bottom it doesn't matter. This removes some of the anxiety of exploring shallow anchorages. Also in tidal waters, drying out is handy even just to check the bottom occasionally.

Anyway, congratulations and I'm sure that Graham will look after you (assuming she is coming from Ancasta).

Garold

Ps. Since we had the addition of the Brexit part to the forum, you should now be campaigning for a multihull part to the form. It's long overdue and it's certainly one part of the marine industry which is growing rather than contracting.

That's all interesting stuff Garold; agree, we are going into the purchase looking for any/every reason to justify so reduced running costs were one of the straws that I clutched. Last year and indeed the year before, visitor berths in May-Aug were itro £6000 and engine service is around £3000 so I do think we will find things a little less expensive as we plan to spend far mor time at anchor.
Portimao Marina charge for length of boat only between sept and May so it's pretty economical from that point of view; as long as we stay here....
We are very keen to 'beach' the boat when we can and even do a little maintenance free of hoist charges.

It would be great to see a multihull section on the forum.

 

[Nick_H]

Congratulations. The 450 fly certainly seems to overcome some of the things we didn't like about monohull sailing, namely the lack of sociable deck space, poor view forward, and 30deg lean under sail. Should be stable at anchor as well without needing complex gyros or fins and genny running. I'll be very interested to hear how you get on with it.

Oh, and congrats for selling on the mobo just before the IPS units disintegrate

 

[Nigelpickin]

Congratulations. The 450 fly certainly seems to overcome some of the things we didn't like about monohull sailing, namely the lack of sociable deck space, poor view forward, and 30deg lean under sail. Should be stable at anchor as well without needing complex gyros or fins and genny running. I'll be very interested to hear how you get on with it.

Oh, and congrats for selling on the mobo just before the IPS units disintegrate

They still have at least 9 months of life in them!

 

[MapisM]

Should be stable at anchor as well without needing complex gyros or fins and genny running.
I'll be very interested to hear how you get on with it.

Nail and head springs to mind.

Actually, the problem of catamarans is that it's impossible to stabilize them, and this can make them the less comfortable vessels on earth, whenever the sea state is rough enough to make them roll - and aside from huge cat ferries, it doesn't actually take a lot.
I've been on a 50 feet or so catamaran of a diving center, and with just 5 or 6 feet of long ocean swell I couldn't move around without hanging onto something - and dressing up before jumping in the water has been a nightmare. With my old tub, in the same conditions, I could have boiled water to make pasta (at least under way, since her stabs are not zero speed).

That said, whenever the sea state is NOT rough enough to make them roll, indeed they are very stable, both at anchor and under way, without needing any expensive and complicated equipment, plus genset running.

Now, the question is, what sort of boating are we interested in?
Of course, all of us can have different answers, and there isn't such thing as a right or wrong one.
But personally, 99% of the times I decide to go out, it's because sea conditions and forecasts are pretty good, where I'm confident that a cat would be as comfortable as a stabilized monohull, without all its hassles.

Bottom line, +1 on the interest to hear how N will get on with it! :encouragement:

 

[MJGH]

Nail and head springs to mind.
Actually, the problem of catamarans is that it's impossible to stabilize them,

Ok now I reveal how little I actually know and risk a thread drift.
Why is it impossible to stabilise a catamaran?

 

[Nigelpickin]

Nail and head springs to mind.
Actually, the problem of catamarans is that it's impossible to stabilize them,

Ok now I reveal how little I actually know and risk a thread drift.
Why is it impossible to stabilise a catamaran?

I think that two hull centrelines would always be fighting one another - I imagine that it would be possible if there were a third hull running through the centre of the boat with a gyro but I'm not exactly qualified to answer questions of a technical nature, (or most other types), just guessing...

 

[vas]

never been inside a cat, admired the aft deck area many times though

DISCLAIMER: Following explanation is just IMHO and based on my understanding of physics, not going to bet my life on it, but shouldn't be way off either...
Imagine on a swell, each hull would have to bob up and down according to its volume and weight. However it's v.easy for port hull being up on the top of the wave whereas at the same moment the stbrd on the valley between two of them. So say an elevation difference of .5m or (easily) much more. How is the whole thing behaving? tilting left and right. The dynamics of having a gyro that would stabilise that thing are unimaginable. How could you possibly have a stable boat when in the example above, the stbrd hull should be elevated above water and the port one sunk almost completely? Not possible no matter what. So you end up with a boat tilting (possibly violently) left and right. I can imagine on the short Med waves that can be v. annoying!
OK, I understand that it's not typical situation but easy to get into with a head wind anchored and various craft passing at highish speed nearby. Has happened to me quite a few times this year alone when family insisted we anchor on crowded anchorages.

I can only think of one way to stabilise them, but bearing in mind none has done it, I guess it's not that easy

Double armed hinging the two hulls to the flat thing in the middle (and between them) so that both hulls remain parallel (i.e. vertical) whereas the middle deck leans either side. Means that when the going gets tough, you just resort to one of the two hulls and relax If you decide to stay in the middle, you just have to live a (I suppose) worse scenario than a round bilged unstabilised monohull.

cheers

V.

 

[Nigelpickin]

Well here it is, the move to the dark side is complete and I type this update from the starboard hull of our new boat.

We set sail from Les Sables D’olonne on Sunday and find ourselves tucked up in Cascais this evening following a jaunt into town for a ruby and a glass of tinto.

Anyone else who was out last night, off the Spanish / Pt Atlantic coast can share bragging rights on the f7 - it was an experience that I shan’t forget for a while and won’t repeat for even longer.

Handover provided by Ancasta was impeccable, three days of detailed, structured assistance - I really can’t speak highly enough of their team.

I’d like to write a longer post with regards to the reasoning that led to us moving to sail after a lifetime of motor boats and a subjective pros / cons list based on the first few weeks experience, if anyone’s interested?

Anyhow, 150nm planned for tomorrow as we push on to Vilamoura, great sailing weather I’m told so I need to get back on to ‘how to sail’ YouTube videos in preparation.....

 

[z1ppy]

your boat names are AMAZING!

best wishes and fair winds.

 

[Bouba]

View attachment 67616

Well here it is, the move to the dark side is complete and I type this update from the starboard hull of our new boat.

We set sail from Les Sables D’olonne on Sunday and find ourselves tucked up in Cascais this evening following a jaunt into town for a ruby and a glass of tinto.

Anyone else who was out last night, off the Spanish / Pt Atlantic coast can share bragging rights on the f7 - it was an experience that I shan’t forget for a while and won’t repeat for even longer.

Handover provided by Ancasta was impeccable, three days of detailed, structured assistance - I really can’t speak highly enough of their team.

I’d like to write a longer post with regards to the reasoning that led to us moving to sail after a lifetime of motor boats and a subjective pros / cons list based on the first few weeks experience, if anyone’s interested?

Anyhow, 150nm planned for tomorrow as we push on to Vilamoura, great sailing weather I’m told so I need to get back on to ‘how to sail’ YouTube videos in preparation.....

Congrats:encouragement:
Is Saul Goodman her name or the maker? I would be very interested to hear about your F7 night in detail, maybe retelling it will be therapeutic

 

[longjohnsilver]

The breaking bad theme continues:encouragement:

Yes, I definitely want to hear/read much more along with as many pics as you can post! Wishing you all the very best with fair winds on your new adventure.

 

[scubaman]

Many congratulations!

Visited Lagoon 450 at Dusseldorf last Jan (and will do again the coming Jan, got tickets from the dealer) and she is pretty perfect for living aboard with massive amount of space everywhere. Fantastic!

Very much looking forward to the videos :encouragement:! They have always been a joy to watch.

 

[kashurst]

congratulations on the new cat - looks great
how long did it take to go from les sables to cascais (portugal?)
love to hear more about change