New Boat, Swedish Delta "Yacht" - anyone got any info? Jack?

jfm said:
RINA's certification business is unusually global MapisM and they certify many boats with limited/zero connections with Italy. My boat has much RINA paperwork and certification
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JFM, you will be aware that RINA has cornered the RCD cert market, principally because they permit more self cert than most other certifiers.
 
wakeup said:
Hmm, many non complainers will just buy another boat. Those that raise the issue probably care enough about the feature that they too will walk away if you cannot learn from feedback. Few or even none will put up with this type of response when spending 5meg.

How about you try to be a bit more accommodating in at least discussing the possibility? Many 'amateurs' on this forum have modified boats and had extensive modifications adopted by the major manufacturers.

You have tapped into, probably the greatest, instant, market feedback resource in the boating community for a designer and it is free. If you explore the possibilities here, you could win fans and probably customers. Or you can adopt the attitude that you are 100% right, in which case there is not much point in coming here. Go check out the VdV thread, they have had great feedback and coverage, same is true of several of JFM's Fairline semi-custom builds and a recentish Princess build.

Just my 2c as a 10yr observer on this forum.
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Lars seems like a smart guy to me so I prefer to think that a few seeds have been planted in Lars mind, even if it would appear that he's dismissed them.
 
You missed all the points not just one. It is experience that might be talking to you not the money that comes with it.

You just lost a fan.
 
Designo said:
Thank you, what I have dismissed is the attitude that money talks...
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But you would agree you are in the business to make money so is the customer not king? I completely understand that you have a brand or design to protect but I don't think a staircase would impact on that. I truly hope JFM looks to do a build with you and can't wait to see the outcome.
 
FARSCO said:
But you would agree you are in the business to make money so is the customer not king? I completely understand that you have a brand or design to protect but I don't think a staircase would impact on that. I truly hope JFM looks to do a build with you and can't wait to see the outcome.
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Lars, I work in software design. I hope you like this link....

http://breckyunits.com/unfeatures.html

See Note 1).

Pete
 
FARSCO said:
But you would agree you are in the business to make money so is the customer not king? I completely understand that you have a brand or design to protect but I don't think a staircase would impact on that. I truly hope JFM looks to do a build with you and can't wait to see the outcome.
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I have been a client and built many boats too and I know that if I want to have and pay for a golden staircase, I can usually have it. But I wouldn´t tell the shipyard to redesign their boats just because I want something different. It is just a custom order.
 
Designo said:
I have been a client and built many boats too and I know that if I want to have and pay for a golden staircase, I can usually have it. But I wouldn´t tell the shipyard to redesign their boats just because I want something different. It is just a custom order.
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Lars, where do you draw the design between custom order and a redesign?

Perhaps you are misunderstanding JFM, who I believe is requesting custom modifications not suggesting that you change your standard design. You may not be aware of this but Fairline accommodated changes such as dash board mouldings, complete addition of internal stairs, addition of stabs, etc as part of the custom one off work for JFM's boat.
 
petem said:
Lars, where do you draw the design between custom order and a redesign?

Perhaps you are misunderstanding JFM, who I believe is requesting custom modifications not suggesting that you change your standard design. You may not be aware of this but Fairline accommodated changes such as dash board mouldings, complete addition of internal stairs, addition of stabs, etc as part of the custom one off work for JFM's boat.
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JFM is welcome with an order and to discuss custom features, but this does not mean I would confuse our present and future clients with illustrations of his ideas on an internet forum...
 
Designo said:
JFM is welcome with an order and to discuss custom features, but this does not mean I would confuse our present and future clients with illustrations of his ideas on an internet forum...
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Ah ok so you wouldn't use a heavily customised customer boat as a show boat then? I ask because both of JFM's last two boats, both very heavily modded, we're displayed at shows in the uk. Not saying you're right or wrong, just giving you some background info.
 
Designo said:
I have been a client and built many boats too and I know that if I want to have and pay for a golden staircase, I can usually have it. But I wouldn´t tell the shipyard to redesign their boats just because I want something different. It is just a custom order.
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Got it. Basically I can have what I want but this is a forum so not the place for you to agree to the sun and the moon. I think I just took it that you wouldn't want to change anything. My mistake and apologies :)
 
petem said:
Ah ok so you wouldn't use a heavily customised customer boat as a show boat then? I ask because both of JFM's last two boats, both very heavily modded, we're displayed at shows in the uk. Not saying you're right or wrong, just giving you some background info.
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Without knowing how the boat will be modified, I would say showing a modified boat with a low build number is not a very good idea. We have made many custom solutions for clients before, on all our models, but I can not remember any of them being exhibited at a boat show. But a couple of mod's have made it to the production boats.
 
Designo said:
About A-class, I doubt you will find many boats going 38 knots, at least I would not like people to believe you could do it in A-conditions.
And there is something odd with the new generation boat owners, they think they can maintain full speed in rough seas...
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LOL, by "new generation" do you actually mean barking mad? :ambivalence:
Design category B includes wave heights up to, and including, 4 m.
So, is it sensible to make these folks believe that the boat can withstand such conditions at 38kts?!?
Anyway, I really don't think RCD requires a boat to be good for its own design category up to WOT speed.
Just as an example, one of my previous boats was a 25' sportboat good for 62kts, and she was CE B, go figure.
Otoh, I'm aware that bureaucrats can be at least as mad as your new generation of clients :), so if you know better and can point me to the relevant RCD rule, I will be happy to stand corrected.
 
Designo said:
last sinking I heard of was a (I think) 42 m Baglietto
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I'm now struggling with your logic, frankly speaking.
In your posts #269 you said "Regarding a transom door, It is how several boats have gone down. Even when you are going through a lazarette with another door. It is called human error, but anyway a reason to avoid it."
And now you are posting an example related to the boat below, which has a huge garage door, much more similar to the one of the D80 rather than to the typical transom door for crew access, which you find on the large majority of 80 footers.
Now, wouldn't the D80 be exposed to the same risk, if someone would open the garage door, take out the tender, and lift the garage floor to access the center engine, for instance?
And even assuming (mind, I'm just guessing) that you designed the garage to be w/tight, with some safety system that doesn't allow its floor to be lifted when the external door is open, well, someone might still bypass the safety switch or whatever.
Human error I know, but anyway etc. etc. ;)

Bottom line, if you were suggesting that the D80 is safer than a 140' Baglietto, or safer than jfm or BartW boats, just because both of them have transom doors, sorry, but I for one don't buy it.

Sofia_zps7b3321e1.jpg


PS: for those interested, the following debate on what happened is much better than the dailymail webpage...
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/g...9455-boat-sinks-simon-cowell-rescues-9-a.html
 
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You would not routinely lift the garage floor at sea - only on the dock?.
Water sinks leisure craft entering through a hole - accidentaly door + windows left open .
happens often on the CdA -style is more important than function -Lars is right to try to attempt to design this out ESP transom doors left open by lazy crew
Bigger waves in the Baltic?
 
MapisM said:
Bottom line, if you were suggesting that the D80 is safer than a 140' Baglietto, or safer than jfm or BartW boats, just because both of them have transom doors, sorry, but I for one don't buy it.
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I can only talk for the Delta 80 and you can not get any access to the engine room through the garage. There is only one small wire going through in the fore end. So if you have a big swell entering, it will go out the same way within seconds. As we store a boat with a petrol engine, it can not be any doors or drainage to the inside...
 
Didn't you mention in some previous post that it's possible to open up the garage for better engines access?
Oh well, never mind. I suppose you meant it's feasible just for extraordinary maintenance.

Re. CE cert, I'm still curious to hear if it's a requirement that the boat can withstand the rated category also at WOT.
 
MapisM said:
Didn't you mention in some previous post that it's possible to open up the garage for better engines access?
Oh well, never mind. I suppose you meant it's feasible just for extraordinary maintenance.

Re. CE cert, I'm still curious to hear if it's a requirement that the boat can withstand the rated category also at WOT.
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You can remove the entire garage to get access for major jobs, and this is done with the boat on the hard I hope, as it is quite obvious what risk it can be otherwise...

Your CE question you should not ask me, I was talking about some boat owners ideas of what a boat can take.
 
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