New Boat Commissioning

Moody

Moody

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Have been looking at new boats recently and am shocked at what a dealer wants to charge for commissioning a new boat, in the range of £5000 + VAT for a £200k boat.

When I challenged the dealer it was defended by ''well we spend a lot of time testing and sea trialling, and then there's the antifouling'' but sorry I expect this to be covered by the manufacturer in the purchase price.

Has anyone had a better explanation, or is it as I suspect just another way to add margin to the new boat deal?
 
I think this stems from sail boats where there is an element of work to rig the mast, standing rigging and sails etc.

With Mobos, as far as I can see it profit miargin removed from the list price of the boat to make it appear cheaper.

What you might not realise is the engine comissioning is refunded to the dealer by the engine manufacturer any way.

£5000 plus VAT is a lot, though most new boats I have looked at dont even include antifoul for that.

I cant see where the work is, and frankly I think its a big ticket item that can be easily discounted when you start to haggle.

Though, if there any dealers on here that would like to try and justify these charges in an itemised way please do, and I might feel happier about maybe paying it
 
5K to comission a V65 come on neil thats really cheap!

Seriously though, you would think antifoul is part of the job, ...........

Imagine trying to dry stack a V65????????????
 
It might include craning-in costs and should include a compass swing plus commissioning the nav electronics (which needs to be done on the water; can't be done at factory) but the rest is margin
 
volvopaul said:
5K to comission a V65 come on neil thats really cheap!

Seriously though, you would think antifoul is part of the job, ...........

Imagine trying to dry stack a V65????????????
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You know I'm not in V65 territory, but interestingly Princess only want a bit more than £5k for commissioning a V62 with a ticket price in excess of £1m
 
jfm said:
It might include craning-in costs and should include a compass swing plus commissioning the nav electronics (which needs to be done on the water; can't be done at factory) but the rest is margin
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Yes I take your point but the dealer doesn't usually install the electronics, and he will take a margin on this. As for compass swinging it's another thing I don't expect to pay extra for.

If you bought a new Bentley would you expect to pay for the PDI or to check that the wheels were balanced or that the sat nav worked?
 
PDI

Moody said:
You know I'm not in V65 territory, but interestingly Princess only want a bit more than £5k for commissioning a V62 with a ticket price in excess of £1m
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£5k seems reasonable if it includes full tanks of fuel
Best part of weeks work to commission that size of boat properly thats without sorting out the defects
 
stelican said:
£5k seems reasonable if it includes full tanks of fuel
Best part of weeks work to commission that size of boat properly thats without sorting out the defects
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Yes but I'm talking about a £200k boat which would take a max of £1k to fill the tanks, and as for rectifying defects during commissioning, again not something I would expect to pay for.

Surely somebody out there must have bought a new boat and baulked at this cost, and had some success in challenging it.
 
Moody said:
Surely somebody out there must have bought a new boat and baulked at this cost, and had some success in challenging it.
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In general I take your point and you shouldn't have to pay for snagging even if most of the PDI week involves fixing snags. Your Bentley analogy is logical. But I've found that buying a new boat (which I've only done 3 times) has become a simple debate whereby the dealer sets out the list price including all the extras and commissioning etc, as a kind of starting point, then says "You can have it for £x all in", at which point you might haggle and agree a different £x but the discussion on individual items just falls away. The £x tends to be a round number, to the nearest £5k, say.

On my current in-build boat the list price is stated "all-in". IE in the water at Ipswich, fully PDIed and commissioned and seatrialed with the engine manufacturer folks on board, antifouled in any colour/paint I choose, and even including the tender. That's how it should be, so top marks to Fairline on that. (Incidentally, I dont want their tender so they're giving me a very fair credit deducted from the round-sum price of £x)
 
Moody said:
Yes but I'm talking about a £200k boat which would take a max of £1k to fill the tanks, and as for rectifying defects during commissioning, again not something I would expect to pay for.

Surely somebody out there must have bought a new boat and baulked at this cost, and had some success in challenging it.
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Most manufacturers have very comprehensive pdi sheets listing the testing and inspecting that the dealer has to carry out and sign off.
Defects found and rectified are subject to warranty claims between the dealer and manufacturers
The initial antifouling of 40ft boat is labour intensive and with materials could easily be £800 plus tax
Most dealers bump the pdi cost up in hope of recovering a part of the large discount the customer has demanded on the boat!
 
I would agree with some, sounds like an extra margin, antifouling is a chargeable cost as the builder may not have antifouled at the yard and the boat may sit on a dealer site for months so any antifoul would be a bit hit and miss depending on the make and type. The rest should be part of the dealers normal margin. In my Absolute days we never quoted a 'deal' price and then added commissioning etc, it was included. I would suggest you haggle, if it is a sports cruiser / flybridge jobbie from any of the main builders they will not let you walk for the cost of the commissioning, sales are hard to come by.
 
I have only ever bought one new boat circa £100k and whilst I thought it reasonable to pay for antifoul and Extra electronics, Dinghy and davits as these are not always required on a 30 foot power boat, I would not and was not asked to pay for commissioning and PDI.
My boats commissioning including testing props fixing electronics glitches and upgrading origional manufacurers issues, battery boxes breakers and the like.
I think the Bentley comparison is spot on, plus they lend you another Bentley if they dont get it delivered on time.

LOFL
 
Bought a few new boats over the years and haggled down to a final price. I picked them up either in the Water or on a trailor.

I always laughed at Southampton when they added commisioning. Infact that caused me once to not buy a Doral. Mind you after the show I got the discount but had changed my mind!

Paul
 
I agree. Its laughable but then the boat industry is still a cottage industry. IMHO, it pisses buyers off if they think they are looking at the purchase price of a boat and the dealer surreptitiously adds commissioning or antifouling or whatever on top. Who on earth buys a new boat without having it commisioned or antifouled? The dealer knows perfectly well what these costs are going to be and he should set his profit margin to include them
 
Damned if they do and damned if they don't! At one level the buyer wants to know what things cost - particularly the things that might vary from customer to customer such as extras and having the boat transfomed from an inanimate object in the factory into an up and running boat in the location of your choice. I could just as easily say it cost £10, being at heart an accountant - and show you calculations to justify it. Then I could say special deal for you, I will only charge you £5k and you will feel you have a bargain.

If, on the other hand you think my price for this part of the process is too high (as all my customers used to when I sold boats of this type and value), I would say, fine, I will forgo the £5k (or whatever) - the boat is at the factory yard - you organise and pay for transport, craning, antifouling, liaising with the factory, equipment suppliers, engage a skipper to carry out the sea trials, compass adjuster to swing the compass - and so on.

Soon shut them up as they would not have a clue where to start - although I did have one customer (a successful second hand car dealer as it happened) who refused my advice on transport of his new boat to Majorca (after I had taken him out to show him what the green and red bouys mean). Organised his own transport and driver told him not worth taking the props off. Guess what - loading on the ferry at Portsmouth, not only props smashed, but shafts bent as well. Lost 6 weeks and lots of beer tokens to fix it. Fortunately not my problem!

So, get real. These jobs have to be done. Whether they are part of the "package" or itemised is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is agreeing the net cost of getting the boat you want to buy in the place where you want it and set up how you want it. What the individual items cost is only relevant if you wish to do without them and do it yourself. The rest is up to your negotiating skills with the vendor - equally the vendor has to have some idea what he is including in the price you finally agree. I assume you all buy into the market ethos otherwise (unless you inherited your money) you would not have acquired the wealth to buy the boat. So go with the flow!
 
Take your point there T but I think the issue here is that customers walk into a dealers yard see a boat sat there and a sticker price and expect that is what they will be negociating on. Of course with some that is not the case, the client gets to where he is comfortable on price to be hit with.... ' ah but that doesn't include XYZ, that'll be another £5000.00 please'. While all you say is true it would be fairer to place a price upon the boat that is actually the true price and let the customer negociate from there. The sticker price is basically useless to him because without the commissioning, lifting, nav gear set up etc what the hell is he supposed to do with the boat sat in a dealers yard un-commissioned, its going to cost to even get it in the water.

It would be like buying the Bentley but it is still covered in wax, no road test, pdi and still strapped to the back of a lorry, who would buy / negociate the take it away price 'as is' when they haven't a clue how to even get the thing off the truck ?.

You mention you would forgo the £5000 for commissioning etc which might appear that is your margin, but, if you were buying at normal discount from the yard you would already have a 25% margin in the boat, no ?
 
Tranona said:
Damned if they do and damned if they don't! At one level the buyer wants to know what things cost - particularly the things that might vary from customer to customer such as extras and having the boat transfomed from an inanimate object in the factory into an up and running boat in the location of your choice. I could just as easily say it cost £10, being at heart an accountant - and show you calculations to justify it. Then I could say special deal for you, I will only charge you £5k and you will feel you have a bargain.

If, on the other hand you think my price for this part of the process is too high (as all my customers used to when I sold boats of this type and value), I would say, fine, I will forgo the £5k (or whatever) - the boat is at the factory yard - you organise and pay for transport, craning, antifouling, liaising with the factory, equipment suppliers, engage a skipper to carry out the sea trials, compass adjuster to swing the compass - and so on.

Soon shut them up as they would not have a clue where to start - although I did have one customer (a successful second hand car dealer as it happened) who refused my advice on transport of his new boat to Majorca (after I had taken him out to show him what the green and red bouys mean). Organised his own transport and driver told him not worth taking the props off. Guess what - loading on the ferry at Portsmouth, not only props smashed, but shafts bent as well. Lost 6 weeks and lots of beer tokens to fix it. Fortunately not my problem!

So, get real. These jobs have to be done. Whether they are part of the "package" or itemised is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is agreeing the net cost of getting the boat you want to buy in the place where you want it and set up how you want it. What the individual items cost is only relevant if you wish to do without them and do it yourself. The rest is up to your negotiating skills with the vendor - equally the vendor has to have some idea what he is including in the price you finally agree. I assume you all buy into the market ethos otherwise (unless you inherited your money) you would not have acquired the wealth to buy the boat. So go with the flow!
Click to expand...

I've only spent the last 22 yrs owning and running a company selling high value capital equipment so give me some credit for knowing what's good marketing practice and what isn't. Believe me, it pisses customers off to think they are paying £x for something and then find out they are paying £x + y + z for it. All they want to know is the final total price so just give it to them. Secondly, by quoting items as extras, you are giving the customer obvious tools to negotiate with as in he'll agree to buy the boat if the dealer throws in delivery, commissioning, antifouling etc foc. Information is power and the less information the customer has about the dealer's costs and margin, the better it is for the dealer
 
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