New Arcona 435 - sail choices

[Elemental]

We've finally settled on the choice of a new boat, an Arcona 435 to be delivered next autumn. At some point we'll be specifying sails and the choice of fabrics and manufacturers is wide (and expensive...).
The test boat had fantastic North 3Di sails, but they're not the easiest sails to handle being very like stiff cardboard when flaking or removing.
We sail as a couple, so generally don't have a large crew. The boat is a cruiser racer, so there's no point in putting anything stretchy up there and we love to have the boat sailing as quickly as possible.
She will be equipped with standard rig (no boom or in-mast furling). It may end up being raced occasionally, but fast cruising will be its main use.
So, opinion on sail choices would be welcome. Initial research throws up OneSail 4t forte as a possibility (my current boat had Onesails Dacron), but I'm sure others will have other opinions.

 

[Concerto]

Congratulations on ordering a fine yacht.

My preference would be Vectran for longer life. This article is worth reading on sail cloth. Kemp Sails| Sail Fabric

All sail makers use a computer program to design sails, so there should be little difference between makers in the set. It is best to choose a good sail maker reasonably close to your boat. What defines a good sail maker depends on many finishing items. Try and avoid a sail maker who has the basics of a sail cut and stitched in the Far East, who then just does some finishing and fixes on their label. A lot of the basics are covered in this American sail maker's article. Doug Pope Discusses How to Buy a New Sail For a more performance based article the read Things to look for in a good sail.

When I bought new sails a few years ago I learnt to check is how the genoa leach is made. For simpler and less expensive sacrificial strip make sure is has the pocket for the leach line as part of the sail not the scrificial strip. It usually means the leach becomes 6 ply rather than 4 ply and is used by some sail makers to keep the cost lower.

Hope this helps.

 

[Frogmogman]

Wow, congratulations !! Lovely boat.

Good advice from Concerto.

What sort of 3Di sails were on the test boat ? Carbon racing ones ? North also offer moulded cruising sails 3Di Nordic (polyester) and 3Di Ocean 370 (polyester/ultraPE hybrid) for cruising boats.

 

[ashtead]

Lovely boat -we considered second hand Arcona a few years back although a tad smaller and the Uk dealer seems a pleasant chap if you are buying at Hamble ? Personally having had a Vectran headsail on our last boat I would support that choice and using a sailmaker located in sailing area. If you plan to keep the boat at Lymington you might speak to Peter S for example -I think it’s a case of finding a sailmaker you feel you can talk to and discuss you needs based on personal recommendations. I’m sure a nice set of North sails would be super but at a price . I guess you will also want some form of cruising chute on a Karver type furled as well ?
Does the dealer say what other owners have as that might be another source of info
I know the price we were quoted to upgrade from the standard spec sails on our boat was unbelievably so declined that opportunity.

 

[westhinder]

Congratulations, that looks like a very nice boat!
I had new sails made three years ago. Similar considerations as yours, plus the ambition to make longer trips, so the sails would have to stand up to more use and possibly abuse. The boat had a suit of North sails that I was satisfied with, but the North dealer did not seem remotely interested in cruising sails and North had not yet launched its Dacron 3DI. So I went with what my local sailmaker advised: fully battened main of highest quality Dacron and vectran triradial genoa. After three seasons I can only say I’m perfectly happy with my choice, although I think I might be tempted with the Dacron 3DI.
Then of course there is the small matter of budget, but as you are splashing out anyway...?

 

[doug748]

Grand boat.

I notice Graham Snook did the YM review, he used to post on here as snooks, might be worth giving him a PM, if just for his general outlook on the thing.

 

[dunedin]

Fantastic boat. Very fast and lovely interiors.

is there an Arcona owners group ? Would be worth asking what sails other owners used.

As the Arcona is in the top 1-2% of performance cruisers (alongside things like X4.3), you definitely want a specialist suit of sails to get the most out of the boat. Most of us on this site will have slower boats and cheaper sails.
Worth asking North for their recommendations, as they should have a couple of options, not just the race spec. North plus one other performance sailmaker would be my approach (though biased as we have North).

 

[Elemental]

Wow, congratulations !! Lovely boat.

Good advice from Concerto.

What sort of 3Di sails were on the test boat ? Carbon racing ones ? North also offer moulded cruising sails 3Di Nordic (polyester) and 3Di Ocean 370 (polyester/ultraPE hybrid) for cruising boats.

The sails on the test boat were 3Di Endurance of some form - absolutely stunning, not flex/movement that I could make out at all. And we were out in some good blows...

 

[Elemental]

Lovely boat -we considered second hand Arcona a few years back although a tad smaller and the Uk dealer seems a pleasant chap if you are buying at Hamble ?

I think it's changed hands fairly recently - they now trade as seyachts.com However, the attitude of the staff was one reason we went for the Arcona over the X-46 (another great yacht).

I guess you will also want some form of cruising chute on a Karver type furled as well ?

Yes, I'll be wanting a Code-zero and an asym. for more downwind work.

 

[Elemental]

Congratulations on ordering a fine yacht.

My preference would be Vectran for longer life. This article is worth reading on sail cloth. Kemp Sails| Sail Fabric

All sail makers use a computer program to design sails, so there should be little difference between makers in the set. It is best to choose a good sail maker reasonably close to your boat. What defines a good sail maker depends on many finishing items. Try and avoid a sail maker who has the basics of a sail cut and stitched in the Far East, who then just does some finishing and fixes on their label. A lot of the basics are covered in this American sail maker's article. Doug Pope Discusses How to Buy a New Sail For a more performance based article the read Things to look for in a good sail.

When I bought new sails a few years ago I learnt to check is how the genoa leach is made. For simpler and less expensive sacrificial strip make sure is has the pocket for the leach line as part of the sail not the scrificial strip. It usually means the leach becomes 6 ply rather than 4 ply and is used by some sail makers to keep the cost lower.

Hope this helps.

@Concerto Very useful reading - thanks

 

[Lucky Duck]

We've finally settled on the choice of a new boat, an Arcona 435 to be delivered next autumn. At some point we'll be specifying sails and the choice of fabrics and manufacturers is wide (and expensive...).
The test boat had fantastic North 3Di sails, but they're not the easiest sails to handle being very like stiff cardboard when flaking or removing.
We sail as a couple, so generally don't have a large crew. The boat is a cruiser racer, so there's no point in putting anything stretchy up there and we love to have the boat sailing as quickly as possible.
She will be equipped with standard rig (no boom or in-mast furling). It may end up being raced occasionally, but fast cruising will be its main use.
So, opinion on sail choices would be welcome. Initial research throws up OneSail 4t forte as a possibility (my current boat had Onesails Dacron), but I'm sure others will have other opinions.

I have one of its smaller sisters with 4t sails, would happily make that choice again.

 

[yoda]

We've finally settled on the choice of a new boat, an Arcona 435 to be delivered next autumn. At some point we'll be specifying sails and the choice of fabrics and manufacturers is wide (and expensive...).
The test boat had fantastic North 3Di sails, but they're not the easiest sails to handle being very like stiff cardboard when flaking or removing.
We sail as a couple, so generally don't have a large crew. The boat is a cruiser racer, so there's no point in putting anything stretchy up there and we love to have the boat sailing as quickly as possible.
She will be equipped with standard rig (no boom or in-mast furling). It may end up being raced occasionally, but fast cruising will be its main use.
So, opinion on sail choices would be welcome. Initial research throws up OneSail 4t forte as a possibility (my current boat had Onesails Dacron), but I'm sure others will have other opinions.

Talk to Peter at Sanders sails. He will give you great advice, he also happens to make excellent sails in my opinion. What's to lose? Great bloke and very friendly.

Yoda

 

[Laser310]

the 435 looks like a splendid boat!

the 3Di Endurance is heavy and stiff - was that on the boat you saw?

I would look at a lighter, more performance-oriented 3Di - i think you will like the "hand" of it a bit better.

In terms of longevity, even the lighter 3Di is going to be better than any other performance material. It doesn't stain or mildew either.

 

[Seven Spades]

It depends on your budget and intended use. 3DInare a great sail but probably not a great choice for self trackers and in mast furling sails. They are expensive. EPEX sails are the prettiest sails and a good budge to choice but not durable enough for livaboard use. Vectran is a good material and cheap and durable but not up to the performance of the other two types.

there are no right answers just choice, with your boat as long as you were not going to become a livabord I would chose 3di if the budget allows.

 

[j24jam]

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