doug748
Well-Known Member
just out of curiosity, how many people feel the need of yet another "new anchor" ?
That's the great thing about New Generation Anchors,
there is always room for another.
New Anchor released at the Hutchwilco New Zealand Boat Show
- Thread starter GrantKing
- Start date
That's the great thing about New Generation Anchors,
there is always room for another.
noelex
Well-Known Member
Competition is good for the consumer. That's us.
GrantKing
Well-Known Member
I've just bought a Fortress
The Fortress is an excellent anchor
laika
Well-Known Member
It's what is known as a "camden anchor", although there's probably vigorous debate on another forum about whether it is really superior to the morrison's trolley for the grand union
Alternatively..
Perhaps it's the same "Tern" parent company that make folding bikes started by a breakaway faction from Dahon?:
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/01/dahon-vs-tern-folding-bikes-and-family-feuds/
No evidence to support that, but interesting if it is...
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GrantKing
Well-Known Member
that's interesting, I can't find anything about the manufacturer. Must be very new.
So let's get this straight, Grant, old r*c*d*v*st fruit cake, do you have anything, anything at all, to do with the manufacture, or promotion, or selling of this anchor. As Private Eye says, I think we should be told.
Name calling now Sarabande ( Rocna One )??
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GrantKing
Well-Known Member
Nothing whatsoever to do with the "Tern" bike feud, but it makes for interesting discussion and supposition, like all anchor threads do.
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Neeves
Well-Known Member
But I'm puzzled - the Rocna anchor is made at the same Pantong. Does this mean that Pantong are making both simultaneously in competition to each other? Or is this Rocna/CMP quietly diversifying to try to secure the market from the convex diehards? (making 'Public enemy No 1 etc - all a bit of a front).
Jonathan
Jonathan
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sarabande
Well-Known Member
I presume that Grant King's original post is one made purely and altruistically in a spirit of public benevolence, for he has not indicated whether he has any connection with the maker of this splendid new Tern anchor. The clock is ticking...
"But I'm puzzled - the Rocna anchor is made at the same Pantong. Does this mean that Pantong are making both simultaneously in competition to each other? Or is this Rocna/CMP quietly diversifying to try to secure the market from the convex diehards? "
And to set the record straight, I understand that Rocna are made by Jiada Specialty Metals Ltd, CMP's wholly owned facility in Ningbo, China, not Pantong near Shanghai. And that for over a year they have had a lifetime warranty against bending or deformation.
"But I'm puzzled - the Rocna anchor is made at the same Pantong. Does this mean that Pantong are making both simultaneously in competition to each other? Or is this Rocna/CMP quietly diversifying to try to secure the market from the convex diehards? "
And to set the record straight, I understand that Rocna are made by Jiada Specialty Metals Ltd, CMP's wholly owned facility in Ningbo, China, not Pantong near Shanghai. And that for over a year they have had a lifetime warranty against bending or deformation.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
I cannot comment on Mr King's altruistic characteristics. But you imply the new anchor is splendid, quite a commendation!
I do find it strange that CMP have not advised that they have transferred production from Pantong to Jiada - particularly as the RINA certification is, or was, for anchors made at Pantong. Does this now mean that no anchors have RINA certification or has the RINA certification been transferred?
Sarabande - you seem to have the ear, what's the story? - I'm obviously frustrated at being usurped
And why the absence of information, secrecy breeds uncertainty - if Rocna was really good at something it was blowing its own trumpet
Jonathan
sarabande
Well-Known Member
one keeps one's ear to the internet... as any researcher should.
http://www.ningbojiada.com/content/en/default.html
http://www.canmet.com/content/aboutus/documents/QA Manual.pdf
http://www.rocna.com/kb/Classification_and_certification
and a press release from Jan 2012 - a mere 16 months ago.
http://nasailor.com/2012/01/24/rocn...ed-by-cmp-global-announces-extended-warranty/
But any good researcher or journo would also have a feel for the accuracy and contemporaneity of unsubstantiated information. Objectivity, Observation and Verification; those were keywords even forty years ago.
I am not sure whence you got the information about Pantong. Can you provide a corroborative link please ?
http://www.ningbojiada.com/content/en/default.html
http://www.canmet.com/content/aboutus/documents/QA Manual.pdf
http://www.rocna.com/kb/Classification_and_certification
and a press release from Jan 2012 - a mere 16 months ago.
http://nasailor.com/2012/01/24/rocn...ed-by-cmp-global-announces-extended-warranty/
But any good researcher or journo would also have a feel for the accuracy and contemporaneity of unsubstantiated information. Objectivity, Observation and Verification; those were keywords even forty years ago.
I am not sure whence you got the information about Pantong. Can you provide a corroborative link please ?
Neeves
Well-Known Member
I think if you check the Rocna RINA certificate that you attached, or linked, to their certification page it is assigned to a company in Shanghai called Pangtong. There is no mention of any company in Ningbo. If the anchors are no longer made by Pangtong (or Pantong) in Shanghai and are now made in Ningbo by a company called Jiada one might have thought the link would have been amended.
I assume thus that this RINA certificate is no longer valid.
Thank you for drawing to my attention the invalidity of the certificate posted on the website. Sloppiness or history repeats itself?
If I have lost track of the links or macinations please feel free to correct me.
Jonathan
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Rigger Mortice
N/A
It's a bit rich you questioning the motives of others when you have not declared your own commercial connection with Rocna in the form of your erstwhile alter ego on this forum as RocnaOne.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Now that Sarabande has spilt the beans on the incorrect advertising of a RINA certificate on the Rocna website - it appears the anchors are no longer certificated - I would expect some silence from that quarter. I suspect Sarabande has let one of the cats out of the bag. Either the reference to the certificate should be removed or, if it has been re-issued, it should be updated.
I still find it odd that they moved production to their own facility without mention. I would have thought this was a move to be proud of. I also wonder what else has not been mentioned, in terms of changes in production.
Mind you we only have Sarabande's post that production has been moved, he ought to know (and given his uncannily similar web investigative skills to that of Craig - I suspect his comment is correct) but as he rightly points out his statement might need some independent corroboration. Now that Sarabande has opened the door slightly I'll have a word with a company that does business with Pantong/Pangtong and see what they say.
Deja Vu?
Jonathan
I still find it odd that they moved production to their own facility without mention. I would have thought this was a move to be proud of. I also wonder what else has not been mentioned, in terms of changes in production.
Mind you we only have Sarabande's post that production has been moved, he ought to know (and given his uncannily similar web investigative skills to that of Craig - I suspect his comment is correct) but as he rightly points out his statement might need some independent corroboration. Now that Sarabande has opened the door slightly I'll have a word with a company that does business with Pantong/Pangtong and see what they say.
Deja Vu?
Jonathan
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GrantKing
Well-Known Member
Do we assume, that as a previous champion for the accepted use of this grade of metal for anchor shanks, that you approve the use of it?
doug748
Well-Known Member
Well, you have to have secret agent skills in order to buy one these New Generation anchors.
I don't want to be lumbered with one made out of freeze dried noodles. Think I will stick with my WD WW1 ex flying boat anchor.
I don't want to be lumbered with one made out of freeze dried noodles. Think I will stick with my WD WW1 ex flying boat anchor.
Nicholas123
N/A
Just remember you don't have to buy it.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Anyone who has followed the Rocna story will not believe any of this - or maybe they will!
The current, not totally corroborated, status seems to be:
The Rocna anchor production was transferred to the CMP factory at Ningbo, before Xmas 2012, say Nov or Dec. Contracts with Pantong/Pangtong were terminated, with some rancour. Pangtong were upset (they lost money and maybe more importantly, face). They set to to get even, what a surprise (hence Tern). Meantime CMP set about manufacture of Rocna in their own facility. But obscurely the Ningbo facility had not the skills. CMP returned cap in hand recently to Pangtong, who are now (apparently) making Rocna again. CMP were unaware of the Tern until the boat show in NZ. There has been no public reaction from CMP to the Tern.
An interpretation - No Rocnas were sold from the Ningbo production, they were selling Pangtong stock - so the RINA certificate has been valid all the time, for anchors of and over 55kg. Saranbande simply did not do his homework - but with a story like this one, I can sympathise
Maybe Sarabande can authenticate - either the anchors are made in Ningbo, and thus uncertificated (and the website is, at best, misleading) or they are made in Pantong and Sarabande has not been kept upto date. There is another odd twist - way back in the mists of time Holdfast terminated their contract with their NZ producer, there was some rancour (the NZ producer took Holdfast to court). After CMP took over they eventually bought all of the 'old' NZ stock (which might have been completed anchors or components, ie cut pieces, shanks, roll bars, flukes or fluke pieces). The whole lot was transferred to China - and presumably used. Some lucky punters, unknown, must have received Chinese made Rocnas with Bis 80 shanks!
Another twist, despite a press release suggesting otherwise CMP have made no attempt to have the Pangtong production approved by RINA, possibly because they had always planned to transfer production to their own (chain) factory in Ningbo. (Seems sensible to me, why subcontract if you can do it yourself). One might guess the RINA approval was planned for Ningbo. However Pangtong seem to appreciate the value of Classification Society approval and are down the track on this score. It is possible the Tern will achieve full CS certification before Rocna.
As an aside - at the recent Sanctuary Cove International Boat Show any Rocnas on display look remarkably like the ones they have been selling for the last 2 years.
But
You think this is the end,
It seems most unlikely that CMP (with Rocna) and Pangtong/Pantong (with their Tern) can co-exist (happily) - but there again, stranger things have happened.
No-one could make any of this up and it has little to do with anchors (or not the performance of the anchors) - but its almost riveting (well better than Home and Away).
Jonathan
TernMarine
New Member
just out of curiosity, how many people feel the need of yet another "new anchor" ?
There is always the need for a 'new anchor' , time marches on, new ideas appear, modifications to old and trusted designs are made and new critics appear on the forums.
TernMarine
New Member
Some more news and photos on the website http://tern-anchor.com/newsinfo.asp?id=1009&tid=3